[Bug] AI unit pathing ignores hazards

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Treadlight
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[Bug] AI unit pathing ignores hazards

Postby Treadlight » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:16 pm

This is the first time I ever see the landmines mission, and this happens. Vek frequently move onto landmines when safe tiles are readily available. Actually, it looked like one set off a landmine it just passed over, and I think it was a flying unit of all things. I don't know if it being a flying unit is what caused this to happen, so you should still check if this can happen for land Vek. If playing on Normal is what does this, then maybe you should actually indicate what the difficulty settings do other than the two things listed.
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Re: [Bug] AI unit pathing ignores hazards

Postby 5thHorseman » Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:02 am

The Vek lack the prediction algorithms and satellite imaging that allow you to know where lightning will strike, land will fall away, or tidal waves will hit.

As for land mines, what use would they be if the Vek could see them?

No unit, yours or theirs, sets off hazards by walking over them. That's a game mechanic that allows for easier pathing.
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Re: [Bug] AI unit pathing ignores hazards

Postby Treadlight » Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:49 am

5thHorseman wrote:The Vek lack the prediction algorithms and satellite imaging that allow you to know where lightning will strike, land will fall away, or tidal waves will hit.

As for land mines, what use would they be if the Vek could see them?

No unit, yours or theirs, sets off hazards by walking over them. That's a game mechanic that allows for easier pathing.
I'm not aware of whether or not the first thing you said is canon, but that's not what I'm talking about. If you read my post, you would notice that I explicitly said I was fully aware that hazards don't do anything unless stopped upon. I might understand them not seeing the landmines if they were actually buried at all, but them stopping on top of a fire and dying before they can attack isn't quite what I'd call lack of satellite imaging. The bug is that it seems like the landmines go off when a flying unit simply passes over it, which I thought I made clear I recognized was not supposed to happen. The other bug is that they seem to totally ignore more obvious hazards and contexts that would result in their death. I do not appreciate this dismissal based upon a false premise.

EDIT: I just realized I forgot to address your second point. The Vek already know not to jump into the water if they'd drown, and it's no harder to push/pull them onto a landmine than into the water.
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Re: [Bug] AI unit pathing ignores hazards

Postby 4n4rch1st » Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:48 am

Well, one of the CEOs say that the Vek are stupid enough to kill their own...

And besides. If one dies, there's probably going to be a replacement in a few days/weeks.
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Re: [Bug] AI unit pathing ignores hazards

Postby stickthemantis » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:05 am

Treadlight wrote:I might understand them not seeing the landmines if they were actually buried at all

How do you know they aren't buried? The view we get is simplified. Before the Pinnacle mission with the ice mines Zenith says that there are hundreds of mines in the area, but that would be very unclear visually so areas that are actually minefields with lots of them show as one massive mine (you think they'd have mines the size of cities?). The same can be said about them being buried.

Treadlight wrote:but them stopping on top of a fire and dying before they can attack isn't quite what I'd call lack of satellite imaging

The Vek will never stop on fire tiles. Nor will they stop in smoke, where tentacles will appear, where rocks will fall, where other Vek are emerging, or where there is a time pod. All of those are things that the Vek will know instinctually (except for the time pods, but that's to make them not frustrating to deal with gameplay-wise, and falling rocks, which similarly is for game balance). The only thing that could maybe be on that list as well is acid, but this comment in the code sums up everything you need to know about that.
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Treadlight wrote:The bug is that it seems like the landmines go off when a flying unit simply passes over it

How do you know they were just passing over it? They could have been stopping there.
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Re: [Bug] AI unit pathing ignores hazards

Postby 5thHorseman » Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:51 am

Treadlight wrote:I'm not aware of whether or not the first thing you said is canon,

It's not technically, but it does explain it and is reasonable.
If you read my post, you would notice that I explicitly said I was fully aware that hazards don't do anything unless stopped upon.

I apologize. I was trying to be thorough, not ignore your post.
I might understand them not seeing the landmines if they were actually buried at all, but them stopping on top of a fire and dying before they can attack isn't quite what I'd call lack of satellite imaging.

As others have said, the screen we see is simplified and the mines are actually not visible to the Vek. This IS canon. The developers told me that when I mentioned how funny it was that they stepped on the mines. And they never step on fire unless they're already on fire, which doesn't hurt them any more than if they'd avoided it, and gives them more options thus making on-fire vek MORE dangerous, until they're at 1 hp.
The bug is that it seems like the landmines go off when a flying unit simply passes over it, which I thought I made clear I recognized was not supposed to happen.

This may be a misperception on your part. Flying units ALWAYS land if they stop on land, triggering whatever is there. They NEVER land if over liquid, so do not trigger what is there. So the vek you see flying "over" the landmine actually ended its turn there, landing on it. The same would happen to your flying mech. This is also cannon; the developers told me this as well.
The other bug is that they seem to totally ignore more obvious hazards and contexts that would result in their death.

The only obvious hazard that they do not avoid is ACID, which can be chalked up to they're dumb animals and don't think small pools of water will hurt them.
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Re: [Bug] AI unit pathing ignores hazards

Postby Treadlight » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:21 am

Ah okay, I had gotten the impression that as they were in the middle of being disarmed (on Archive anyway), at least some of them may have been partially unearthed. I'll try to get a screenshot of something dying by passing over a mine if I can, as I do recall melee flying Vek dying to landmines that aren't adjacent to anything they would normally target. I haven't yet seen the particular mission on Pinnacle where that was specified either, so I apologize for my lack of foresight.

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