Subset Games Forum

The engines issue was completely hidden to me. I saw nothing in the gameplay that suggested that upgrading my engines helped anything except recharge time. But clearly this is as, or more, important that any other upgrade.

Not that it has helped though. It's the same thing every time. *Something* happens that kills me, every time. I either run out of missiles, get an unlucky series of hits, invasions I can't beat off, whatever it is, I'm whittled down until I'm dead.

100% of the time.

There must be more that I am doing wrong, but as always, whatever it is the game dynamics hide it very very well.

Well, early on when your engines are low, and your pilot and engineer inexperienced, you're not dodging too many shots, so it may seem like they're not worthy. I don't know that they're more important than anything else, as shields and weapons are important, too. (Boarding helps if your weapons are weak.)

It took me quite a bit of time before I got good. I forgot to check how many games/hours, but while I was often able to make if far early in my career, when I finally got to the boss, my ship was weak, and I got shredded. When I was finally able to limp past the first round, I got even more shredded in the second.

I got so frustrated that I temporarily gave up on beating the game, and just went on unlock missions. I unlocked nearly all the ships, including the ? cruiser, which I spent many frustrating hours hunting in the Rock A, as I was also trying to unlock the Rock B.

Eventually I watched videos to help me learn. Twinge did a Kestrel tutorial, which is very long, but you may find it worthwhile. 5th Horseman made [urlhttp://www.ftlgame.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=12033]a lot of vids [/url]which I enjoyed - it's funny to watch other people's mistakes (and props to him for posting them).

In the other thread you asked how I can max systems. Well, generally speaking I prioritize improving defenses first: see this post by 5th Horseman. Less damage taken means less scrap spent on repairs, and thus more scrap for improving your ship. Also, don't repair your ship fully - going to 25 HP leaves room to take advantage of events where you hull gets repaired, or a repair station which has cheap repairs (and when you get better, repair to 20 HP).

If you start out using missiles, don't have it on autofire, and maybe accept more surrenders early, when they're offering lots of missiles (say 4+). Yes, you get more scrap when you blow up a ship, but early on it's not much more, and consider the scrap equivalent value of missiles, etc. if you were to buy in stores. And try not to buy missiles in stores. You'll want to switch to energy weapons, or at least bombs, which can't be shot down. I like, in ascending power: small bomb, breach bomb Mk II, ion bomb.

Did you see this thread about dealing with Mantis boarders?

You get more scrap by killing the enemy crew rather than blowing up their ship. Boarding is the primary way, but anti-bio beam, fire beam/bomb, suffocation, or even judicious use of weapons can work.

Early on, it's key to get that second layer of shields and a defense drone to swat down incoming missiles and asteroids.

I know everyone here but me seems to be hugely in favor of upgrading your pilot to 5 bars, but in my experience, I've found better luck spending that scrap on shields, defense drones and cloaking device upgrades.

For boarders, just remember to rotate out your crew to the Med Bay to heal and then get them back in the fight. There are very few boarding parties you can't come out on top against using that strat. If you don't have any solid fighters on your crew, consider upgrading your doors asap so you can weaken any boarders by venting their rooms.

Also, an anti-personnel drone is a great boost for a ship with poor hand-to-hand crew members.

And, I assume you know better, but using auto-fire is not usually recommended. Wait until all your laser weapons are charged and fire them together. Use the space bar to fire them in a specific sequence if you have some weapons that do more damage than others, obviously following up the lasers with beam attacks while the shields are down.

For me it's not either shields and engines or shields and drone control and cloak, it's shields and engines and then drone control and cloak (and teleporter and etc., etc., etc.).

Drone control costs 80 scrap - and you might not even get a defense drone. Then there's at least one power to buy (so you're only borrowing from O2 to power a defense drone Mk I) - say 100 scrap total (135 if you have to buy a defense Mk I and sell the repair drone). Compare that to L3 & 4 engines and two power (15+20+20+25=80 scrap). You're coming out ahead (even if we consider L4 & 5 engines and 25 for power: 20+25x3=95). Plus increased evasion means your pilot & engineer level up faster, which means more evasion - and this is good against lasers and bombs as well as missiles. Fewer hits means less scrap spent on repairs, so more for upgrades. Drones don't always shoot missiles, either, and you need drone parts (or maybe spend another 50 on a drone recovery arm).

Cloak is of course even more expensive, 150+25=175 scrap. You can get L5 & 6 shields and two power for 150. Cloak helps you dodge a volley, but then has a long cooldown - but if you haven't got your base evasion up to 40%, then you can still be hit. If you aren't capable of taking out enemy weapons quickly, then it's offline when they fire again.

Now don't get me wrong - I like these systems. But you don't get much scrap early (I'm talking on Normal), so I think it's far better spent on shields and engines first. When you're getting more scrap in the middle sectors, then you can more easily afford supplemental systems (and weapons and upgrades and etc., etc., etc.). Oh, and by waiting to get drone control, you may have accumulated more drone parts, so don't have to buy as many (8 scrap per when scrap is scarce early on is pretty spendy).

I think I can count on one hand how many times a defense drone has whiffed on a missile.

Even with level 5 engines, you're only dodging less than half of incoming missiles, versus 99.9% protection with a drone. Clearly, getting a drone recovery arm is key for long term usage. And, I don't have the percentages on it, but I think more often than not the Drone system comes with a defense drone, in my experience.

As for the cloak and 3 levels of engine, it is an absolute rarity that anything gets through for me, anyway.

The first order of business has to be 2 layers of shields. That will protect you against almost anything you come across in the early Sectors. Missiles are a total bummer, however, until you get a defense drone.

From there, clearly, you have to adapt to what becomes available through gameplay and have a good working strat for a number of different loadouts.

My favorite loadout includes the defense drone and a drone recovery arm. Add in the cloak and that's usually just enough defense to make it all the way through the end and even beat the Flagship, assuming you've been able to accumulate enough offense stuff as well. Even with just 3 engine bars by mid to late game I've accumulated enough experience for my pilot and engineer that evasion is decent. By the end game, I've usually got 3 shield layers, 3 engines, 7-8 weapons, 4-6 drone, 3 cloak, 1-2 teleporter, and of course oxygen and medbay.

I could micro the engines by shutting down oxygen or drones back and forth I suppose but I usually don't need it.

Usually if you're getting whittled down the problem is your defenses are not up to the task. Ideally you want to take no damage in a fight. It may not be possible and/or may require some luck, but that's a great goal to have. That means you should be trying to upgrade your defenses as soon as possible. However, you need to balance that with being able to defeat enemy ships. If you can't do that you're toast. So, you have to develop a feel for when you can add some defense and when you need to add some offense. For the first couple sectors usually your starting weapons will be enough to take on any enemy. So, for those two sectors you should be able to focus on defense. A 2nd layer of shields is great. A defense drone to shoot down missiles is awesome. If you can get those in the first two sectors you should be good for a little while.

spongebobsaget wrote:I think I can count on one hand how many times a defense drone has whiffed on a missile.

Well, maybe you are very lucky, or haven't played a lot of games.

Even with level 5 engines, you're only dodging less than half of incoming missiles, ...

That's one way to look at it. Another way is your'e dodging almost half of missiles and lasers and bombs. And it's much harder for multiple shots to get through your shields when your evasion is higher.

... versus 99.9% protection with a drone. Clearly, getting a drone recovery arm is key for long term usage. And, I don't have the percentages on it, but I think more often than not the Drone system comes with a defense drone, in my experience.

I think this is an exaggeration. But even if a drone is shooting down a majority - even a vast majority - of missiles (and sometimes two missiles of a volley), they do miss. And drones can be shot down - rare, but it happens. I'm not saying don't get drone control - I think it's better to get it later. For someone who's having trouble with the game, I don't think it's good to recommend spending such a large amount of early scrap on something that doesn't help as often as better engines (also if stores don't have a recovery arm, drone parts are expensive). After all, not every ship has missiles.

As for the cloak and 3 levels of engine, it is an absolute rarity that anything gets through for me, anyway.

Yes, but 100% is 100%. Cloak is useful, but it's better to wait to get it.

The first order of business has to be 2 layers of shields. That will protect you against almost anything you come across in the early Sectors. Missiles are a total bummer, however, until you get a defense drone.

Agree on shields, but early missiles do 1 or 2 damage, so not a total bummer.

From there, clearly, you have to adapt to what becomes available through gameplay and have a good working strat for a number of different loadouts.

I agree, but for a struggling player, I think boosting basic defenses first is better advice.

My favorite loadout includes the defense drone and a drone recovery arm. Add in the cloak and that's usually just enough defense to make it all the way through the end and even beat the Flagship, assuming you've been able to accumulate enough offense stuff as well. Even with just 3 engine bars by mid to late game I've accumulated enough experience for my pilot and engineer that evasion is decent. By the end game, I've usually got 3 shield layers, 3 engines, 7-8 weapons, 4-6 drone, 3 cloak, 1-2 teleporter, and of course oxygen and medbay.

I could micro the engines by shutting down oxygen or drones back and forth I suppose but I usually don't need it.

I shoot for max reactor, L7-8 shields, L5-6 engines (6-7 if I don't have a cloak), L7-8 weapons, L3+ drones (I often have more than one bar of damage buffer), L3 cloak, L3 teleporter, maybe L3 doors, L2 everything else. It's much easier for L3 engines to be taken out than for 5-6. But there is more than one path to win the game, and I have done it with less (Captain's Edition certainly does make it harder to upgrade as much as I'm used to in the regular game).

I hear ya. Glad that strat works for you

I've always had good luck with the L3 engines + maxed pilot and engineer (appx 35% evasion) paired with good shields and drone defense. That ensures that you take very little damage from anything in the game until very late. Even then, if you have 3 layers of shields and 35% evasion, you gotta figure it will take a ship firing at least 6 shots simultaneously to have any chance of hurting you, and you just don't see that very often. Bumping evasion up to 50% means they'd have to be firing 8 shots at a time to pose a real threat, and that happens almost never.

I dunno, I will try a couple of runs using 5-6 levels of engines and see how it goes! I'm just not sure that trade off, especially early on, would be my logical choice. I'd rather spend that scrap and power elsewhere usually.

Cheers!

Oh, and for what it's worth, I have over 400 hours of gameplay in.