Love the game, hate the random

[5thHorseman]

Well for you maybe. You may get like, one or two runs where you turn a bad start into a memorable run, in my case I've found out most of the times that a bad start is playing catch up and usually never really being able to. A game that will drag on with me just spending most of my scrap on repairs after repairs and never being able to get anything good for a break is just being dicked by the game to the point where it is no fun...

This is exactly the margin we're talking about here. For us, these games where you get dicked over, we find ways to overcome and excel, or at the very least succeed. And after this many playthroughs, it's quite literally all that is left that's fun.

Keeping away from a single damage point here and there adds up dramatically, and quickly becomes the difference between a level 4 and 5 engine, or being able to upgrade to shields 3 from 2, or any of a dozen other things that, when you lose because of them, you write it off as bad luck.

[UltraMantis]

...A game that will drag on with me just spending most of my scrap on repairs after repairs and never being able to get anything good for a break is just being dicked by the game to the point where it is no fun... I enjoy a challenge, just not straight up masochism...

Well don't get hurt. Losing scrap to repairs is a terrible thing. It does happen to us all but there's things you can try and do.

Invest scrap in engines, and keep your engineer at his station. Eventually this will improve evasion. It also helps you leg it when you can't win. Keep buying engines!
Put scrap into another shield layer as soon as possible.
Use the repair arm. Most people complain it's not usefull to take a scrap hit. The hit is insignificant, and your ship autoheals by one point every time you get any scrap. You don't rely on stores so much, and never have to repair the ship fully.
Take care of fires by venting the ship and have all your systems upgraded to lvl2. That way they dont burn down (and cause 1HP hull damage) so quickly.

Try to silence the enemies guns as quickly as possible. The way you open your battle and select your targets will have plenty to say about how much damage you take. Usually there's shields or other systems that get in the way (if they have repair drones, or attack drones then you may have to knock that out first, if they have huge evasion, engines or piloting have to be attacked) but priority one is getting their weapons down. There's quite a few different approaches to that problem, but defending and shutting up enemy weapons is very important to learn if you want to avoid excessive repairs.

There's quite a lot of usefull tips here. And look, it's almost the anniversary of this thread, and the debate still goes on.

[Nevill]

One small note here - Defense Drones aren't immunity on most ships due to the game coding and ship shape.

Well, everyone who used them learned this the hard way. Still, 90% is as good as 100%. 20 missile hits would kill you, 2 missile hits would just barely inconvenience you.

About the Nesasio running out of steam later on... it has happened to me quite regularly but i mentioned that i play that ship without a shield so i need very high crunch power if i want to live in sectors 5 and 6.

Can you actually win a no shield run without a Defence MkII? It's not even the stage 2 power surge that gets on my nerves, it's that thrice cursed anti-ship drone that is nibbling away at my ship for 1 HP every 4 seconds if I don't have one.

There is quite a specific list of equipment you need in order to succeed in such a run, but I haven't had problems with just finding weapons to fend off regular mooks.

And after this many playthroughs, it's quite literally all that is left that's fun.

5thHorseman, you might want to try out the Captain's Edition mod. It has many new and exciting way to screw you over.

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Still commenting on the video.

2:20 A teleporter would have been nice. since you are low on crewmembers. A teleporter and a medbey are best when it comes to increasing your crew roster, the former more so than the latter.

4:13 5th sector is midgame, where you get enough scrap from enemies that you are better off staying and fighting despite the damage. If anything, the enemy ship will run out of missiles. It seems that it already did, right before you jumped away.

7:39 You had the right idea. 2 more jumps would probably net ~70 scrap, and rebels can be dodged at this point.

1:15 Yes, the weapons should havefired long ago, but you didn't need to waste a Glaive Beam shot to get rid of Zoltan shields. It would be better to wait for quick weapons to recharge, fire the mini-beam, then suppress normal shields with a laser, and THEN fire the Glaive Beam in its full glory.

3:12 No they don't. They are going to be dead in 1 shot. Actually, it's 2 shots, if you fire the lesser weapons before the Glaive Beam.

Glaive Beam could have hit 5 rooms. Not that it mattered.

4:42 Kind of strange seeing a stealth ship without cloak upgrades, but at this point, you are right, you don't need them.

8:35 Running from combat is running from scrap. You coud have easily destroyed the ship.

15:02 Engines could use some love here.

15:23 Lower charge is no joke in this game, you make systems go down faster and thus do more damage with your next salvo. Arguably, a Halberd Beam is better than a Glaive one. But the latter has no rivals in the awesome department.

0:21 I mostly hire them to delay the rebels, in hopes of getting more scrap. But this time, you have a lot of things to sell, so scouting is a good option, too.

4:25 You might have benefitted from the offense one.

5:28 That's why I like Halberd Beam more!

7:07 True that it is only 3 at a time, but it is still faster than your shields recharge. Some cloaking would have helped.

The fight isn't hard by any means, but a series of bad decisions turn it into a disaster.

8:26 Turning off engines when they can shoot down shields faster than they recharge is the third worst thing to do. First two being turning off your weapons and shields, respectively.

Also, since you are not dodging, your engine guy could have manned shields, and the pilot could run around the ship fixing stuff. Especially the very same shields.

9:01 You don't need Defense Drone to be active all the time. You can turn it off and power the O2 room.

11:36

[UltraMantis]

Defense drone MkII sucks, it fails to hit missiles as it wastes time on lazars. I never even considered it as defense against Attack drones. There's no defense against those in a shieldless run, only max evasion, and pray they hit rarely and damage important stuff even more rarely.

Defense drone MkI is the one you want, and you almost cannot win without it in stage 2 because it is responsible for shooting down incoming boarding drones. (It's hillarious. Well funny. Well horrible actually.)

Tri-Missile launcher and either of the remaining weapons, Boarding control, enemy Boarding and Attack drones and surges all play merry hell with your ship. You can counteract the surge with the cloak but then cant use cloaking to defend against the rest. The missile launcher is probably best taken care of right away, you can spare 2 boarders and 1 power, and the rest of the incoming shots will have to be countered with evasion. That only leaves beam drones to ruin your day, so i would go after that next.

[Twinge]

Use the repair arm. Most people complain it's not usefull to take a scrap hit. The hit is insignificant, and your ship autoheals by one point every time you get any scrap.

There's a reason we complain about the scrap hit =) 15% is a huge portion of your income - and it rounds against you *and* charges you at full hull to boot. All that to only heal up 1 or 2 hull (random, equal chance of each AFAIK). If you're buying it from a store, you're also talking about a 50 scrap up front cost - money that could be spent on Engine upgrades, Shields, weapons, etc.

In Sector 1, scrap income probably averages about 14 per instance - so you'll gain 11 and pay 3 scrap - breaking even with store repair cost (or if you get less than 14 scrap, you're paying 2 - a very slight gain if your hull isn't already full). This gets worse in Sector 2 and 3, where repairs still only cost 2 but you're gaining more scrap - on a good reward you could be paying 7 scrap for your 1.5 repairs (store value: 3). The Repair Arm continues to outpace stores in cost for the rest of the game even if you ignore the initial cost!


In my Balance Mod I've dropped the price from 50 to 35 and the scrap theft from 15% to 5% -- and honestly, I'm still not at all exciting to pick one up, but at least it's no longer actively bad for me to have =)

[Nevill]

Defense drone MkII sucks, it fails to hit missiles as it wastes time on lazars. I never even considered it as defense against Attack drones. There's no defense against those in a shieldless run, only max evasion, and pray they hit rarely and damage important stuff even more rarely.

On a shieldless run, there is not much difference between a missile and a laser, so an anti-ship MKII is actually useful, strange as it may sound. And it defends pretty nicely against enemy anti-ship drones. I've got this idea from another shieldless playthrough, and it proved to be a sound advise.

Defense drone MkI is the one you want, and you almost cannot win without it in stage 2 because it is responsible for shooting down incoming boarding drones.

Nah, I just let the boarding drone run amok. If I don't touch it, they won't send another. Less breaches in my hull. In the time it takes him to do some damage, either you or the boss are going to be dead.

I would still engage it with a single person to prevent it from harming my key systems.

Tri-Missile launcher and either of the remaining weapons, Boarding control, enemy Boarding and Attack drones and surges all play merry hell with your ship. You can counteract the surge with the cloak but then cant use cloaking to defend against the rest. The missile launcher is probably best taken care of right away, you can spare 2 boarders and 1 power, and the rest of the incoming shots will have to be countered with evasion. That only leaves beam drones to ruin your day, so i would go after that next.

If I have a Halberd Beam and some means of piercing 4 shields, I ignore the missile launcher altogether in favor of the beam weapon. Because, you know, no shields. The second team of boarders goes to the main ship body and tries to distract the pilot, to bring down the evade. 3 shot from the Halberd beam is all it takes.

And teleporter is working at full power, because I need to bring the boarders to the beam, bring the next team on the Flagship, bring the first team back, maybe send them back to the missile launcher, and bring both teams back, all in the course of 60 seconds (because that is when I fire my 3rd HB shot). I can't spare the power, and frankly, without the shields, there is no need to.

In my Balance Mod I've dropped the price from 50 to 35 and the scrap theft from 15% to 5% -- and honestly, I'm still not at all exciting to pick one up, but at least it's no longer actively bad for me to have =)

I think it was fine as it was - it had its uses. You took it as an extra insurance.

It wasn't the stuff of legends you immediately go for when you see it, but I bought it from time to time on a shieldless run.

Actually, I think I have something to say about your Balanse Mod, but it would better be kept for the corresponding thread.

[Twinge]

Defense drone MkII sucks, it fails to hit missiles as it wastes time on lazars.

Defense drone MkI is the one you want, and you almost cannot win without it in stage 2 because it is responsible for shooting down incoming boarding drones.

Tri-Missile launcher and either of the remaining weapons, Boarding control, enemy Boarding and Attack drones and surges all play merry hell with your ship. You can counteract the surge with the cloak but then cant use cloaking to defend against the rest. The missile launcher is probably best taken care of right away, you can spare 2 boarders and 1 power, and the rest of the incoming shots will have to be countered with evasion.

Most important thing to realize in a shieldless run: missiles are now the weakest damaging weapon the collective enemy armada is using. Defense II isn't wasting time shooting down lasers - it's blocking deadly incoming shots.

With the right set up, you really don't care about their Boarding Drones - you have much, much bigger worries with no shields. As long as it doesn't land in your cockpit it's pretty easy to deal with most of the time, and you have less than a 70% chance to shooting down each Boarder anyway (or less than a 7% chance of shooting all 7 down without any making it in). It will also be disabled as soon as you do 1 damage to their Drone System. Doors 2, Pilot 2, and Oxygen 2 (opening interior doors will counteract a breach with Level 2 Oxygen) are recommended as a baseline minimum for dealing with a Boarding Drone in this case - ensure it's not a major threat while you worry about more pressing matters.

You're also going to want to prioritize differently for a shieldless run - the triple leto launcher is the least of your concerns. Take out the Halberd Beam ASAP - it cannot be dodged in any fashion and will generally do a nasty 4-6 damage slice (while triple missiles average only 1.65 damage).


And Neville: It's possible to accomplish without a DD2, but that's definitely the ideal situation. You may need a Pre-Ignitor, Re-loaders, or both to get the raw damage output needed to disable and destroy fast enough without a DD2, although a Hull Repair Drone running during the battle may also do the job. 55% evasion coupled with 15 seconds of cloaking is a strong defense against even drones; you just need to take them out fast enough that the bits of damage don't add up too quickly.

[BKT]

What do you need in a shieldless run? (or any run for that matter) ... Neo has a perfect answer!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mbkWMEMB9s

... and Telepad, too!

[UltraMantis]

Ah yes, the beams. How could i forget the Boss Beam.

I'm used to having a DDMkI for missile defense specifically even though Heavy Lasers present a bigger threat than normal. There are still missiles that pound the bejesus out of you and asteroids, so i prefer to have the drone concentrate on those and ignore lasers.

I'm uncomfortable having a Boarding Drone run amok on my ship, it is a big distraction. If it happens to land in a less usefull place i will leave it alone but usually it attacks a vital system and interferes with my crew making repairs. It also depends on wheter or not i can knock out their Drone Control quickly or not.

The main reason i don't care about the 15% scrap earnings hit and will even buy the repair arm outright is that scrap earnings are meagre anyway in the early sectors and i'm choking on scrap in the last sectors. Money is never a problem unless a nice but expensive piece of kit shows up in the early game.

For me not losing scrap to repairs (well this is slightly untrue since the repair arm costs scrap allways) and not having to rely on stores for health is more than enough to offset the scrap hit because i allways feel like i have enough. Since store placement is random it can be a long way to the next repair job, but the likelyhood of any scrap earnings at the very next beacon is very high esp. since Long Range Scanners point out ships. There will allways be some battle damage and the ship generally allways stays above 75% health but rarely has full HP. A Hull Repair Drone is much better but not quite so common. 15% feels like peanuts to me, but this is personal opinion.

[5thHorseman]

I don't have any disagreements on the 2nd sector, except to add that I don't like how I was taking the guy out of the cockpit so much.

I'd probably have upgraded the weapons, though. You are going to have troubles dealing with two shield bars on enemy ships otherwise.

5:37 Had you gone for firepower, and not shields, you would have ripped that ship apart in no time with a Halberd beam (it is arguably better than a Glaive beam - it charges faster, allowing for better synergy between weapons). With the weapons you currently have, you can't destroy it fast enough, so you have to resort to delaying it. For that purpose it would have been better to prioritize hitting the helm instead of engines.

I disagree. Your analysis of this fight is flawless, but those shields (and the 2nd shield) come in handy in other fights. I lost this one because I didn't concentrate on his cockpit from the start, not because I didn't have a Halberd beam. I would much rather face this guy as my ship was there than with no shield and a Halberd. As you say, it comes down to a difference in play style. I put more stock in defense, especially early on. If I hadn't made those mistakes in sectors 1 and 2, however, I'd possibly have the Glaive up right now, maybe with a level-1 shield.

I agree that the Halberd is better than the Glaive in general, but I'll take a free Glaive over a paid-for Halberd most runs

6:42 You could still have tried to follow your initial plan. The exit beacon would have been under rebel control either way.

True, but I didn't know that at the time

11:55 Nevermind, you just did, by upgrading yet another layer of shields. Why did you even need them?

While I don't think upgrading the shields was as much of a screwup as you do, it WAS based on faulty calculations on my part. I was thinking I had to get 4 weapon ticks to get the Glaive running when I really only needed 3. I could have actually gotten it and the dual lasers going albeit without power, and I think I should have.

And I agree mostly with your 4th sector notes, but...

And the forth video is done.

2:12 Well, you could have had more, had you not wasted it on the shield upgrade, which you didn't even get to use yet.

If only every 4th sector enemy only needed a level 2 shield to completely thwart... Though I do agree that I should have at least seen what this sector had to offer before pulling the trigger. Had I done that, I'd have happily gone to that store with my 100+ scrap.