Subset Games Forum

Sleeper Service wrote:

Metzelmax wrote:Fleet delay does carry over to the next sector

Hm several people made different claims on that, the other reasons still apply though.

dalolorn wrote:Did you set the system's room to 0 or something?

Yeah, that's exactly how it was done. The room is still targetable by drones this way though. But if its positioned between other rooms, drone shots cant connect with the system any more and the it basically becomes untouchable. Could allow for interesting player ships as well...

aaaaaa50 wrote:That shield barge looks totally awesome.

Glad you like it. The new Zoltan shield station will feature a similar design:

*is confused by the response for a moment*

*realizes you were referring to the size of the room*

Nice.

Sleeper Service wrote: 1. I'm still pretty sure that delay does not carry over to the next sector.

I'm pretty sure it does Just checked it, but you have other proofs already, so lets move to busting other myths:

Sleeper Service wrote:2. Delay on exit cruiser would also allows to farm fleet delay on exit by on returning to the beacon, which actually could be exploited excessively.

Wrong, as I'm quite sure (tm) that it is not cumulative, i.e. next "delay" replaces old one, not add to it. I've tested it once, as I also thought that it may be possible exploit. Tested it by farming poor cruiser over and over, and I ended up with just one, standard delay.

Sleeper Service wrote:3. Having the player return to the exit beacon seems restarts the same event with the same named Rebel cruiser. That is another thing that wasn't intended and the player could be discouraged to do that by not getting fleet delay on exit. Otherwise I have to make the exit beacon a general event without any fancy named cruiser. Boring.

Agree here, but again, the same named cruiser is very minor bug. And, as seen in previous point, farming it over and over doesn't give you anything - even further, it make you loose fuel (jump there and back, get only one fuel as reward, = -1 fuel pel cruiser, no additional gain).

Also, what you described doesn't fix this little, non-important bug - it just hope to discourage players from hitting it. Yet, due to not-summing-up delays, reasons for hitting this bug before and after change (getting rid of delay) are the same (unusually generated sector, where you have 3 or 4 interesting beacons *after* exit). So, logical conclusion is, that latest change doesn't affect probability of hitting this bug, at all.

Sleeper Service wrote:So, I'm not planing on bringing that feature back currently.

Well, I hope that I cleared all your fears for possible exploit use Frankly, I'm all for re-introducing delay on exit, but of course, it's your decision. Fun fact - I'm OK either way re "powergaming" aspect. It just isn't logical, that other cruisers give delay, and this one doesn't. It also create possible "silly" situations, where you want to buy yourself time for exploring *current* sector past exit beacon, so you need to "hunt" cruiser around exit, because one on exit doesn't give delay for arbitrary reasons *rolleyes*.

Sleeper Service wrote:I'm also pretty sure that 1.031 is completely stable, aside from some very minor bugs that already have been present in the last version... working on that stuff. So no real need to revert to older versions.

Maybe it was luck, by I was never hit by non-targetable (or messed targetable) ships in version I'm using now, while on newest version, 90% of my playthroughs I meet such weirdo. I know, one can work-around it, but it becomes quite tedious, and as such, seems to be game-breaking for some (inc. me). Sure, it was funny to chase bug *once* (well, no real need for chasing it, as it appeared on 1st playthrough...) to confirm it's existence, but for normal, relaxing playthroughs, it's irritating. Mix it with silly delay-less cruisers on exit (which I perceived, and still hope to perceive, as temporary "solution", made due to some stupid +wrong "lets play" comment), and it just seems natural to revert back, 'till next version is released
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Sleeper Service wrote:The report by CrazyDave concerning the glitched room that can't be hit by drones got me and kartoFlane to do a little R&D on that. We ended up with a way to create systems that can't be targeted. That was a thing I wanted to do for some time, to set certain enemies further apart from standard encounters.

So, the new Zoltan Shield Barge will have it's shield system deeply encased within the ship. This way it can't be manned, but also not damaged by any weapon fire. Deal with it!

A few other enemies also will feature internal system. The Rebel battleship for example will have encased weapon and door system. I hope to finally create a ship the player really HAS to run away from...

Fine idea, if won't get over-used. To make it logical for even beam weapons being unable to dam,age such system, ship should be *really* big - Battleship sounds OK here (although I'm not sure if unmanned weapons are good idea - doors and oxygen, maybe, to make boarding harder?). Or special, like that Zoltan barge. But if we start seeing it on 1/4 of ships, it may become tedious.

I still think, that separate weapon "turrets" - aka separate weapon systems, resembling artillery beam or boss weapons - would be more interesting, for both BIG ships and stations. Have you checked possibilities here?

/Estel

BTW, you may get disappointed, if willing to make a Battleship that I'll need to run from Would love to see you trying, though - such challenges (if made logical way, i.e. not straight, unrealistically OP just for sake of it) are really rewarding to overcome. Even, if there is no in-game reward for it (or small one, like delaying fleet with battleship - lets be honest, it wasn't lucrative in almost any case, yet, I couldn't help myself to just blow those things up, blinking eye on scrap [repair, bombs/missiles/drones, etc] cost).

Estel wrote:Maybe it was luck, by I was never hit by non-targetable (or messed targetable) ships in version I'm using now, while on newest version, 90% of my playthroughs I meet such weirdo.

Ah ok. What did you encounter exactly?

Estel wrote:Agree here, but again, the same named cruiser is very minor bug. And, as seen in previous point, farming it over and over doesn't give you anything - even further, it make you loose fuel (jump there and back, get only one fuel as reward, = -1 fuel pel cruiser, no additional gain).

Also, what you described doesn't fix this little, non-important bug - it just hope to discourage players from hitting it. Yet, due to not-summing-up delays, reasons for hitting this bug before and after change (getting rid of delay) are the same (unusually generated sector, where you have 3 or 4 interesting beacons *after* exit). So, logical conclusion is, that latest change doesn't affect probability of hitting this bug, at all.

Ah ok just to confirm that: Does returning to a already cleared exit beacon ALWAYS spawn the same named cruiser or not? I know I could test that myself, but you seem to have figured that out.

The delay replacement is also quite interesting, cause normally delays (at last from different beacons) should be added on top of each other... well at last I thought it's like that?

Estel wrote:Fine idea, if won't get over-used. To make it logical for even beam weapons being unable to dam,age such system, ship should be *really* big - Battleship sounds OK here (although I'm not sure if unmanned weapons are good idea - doors and oxygen, maybe, to make boarding harder?). Or special, like that Zoltan barge. But if we start seeing it on 1/4 of ships, it may become tedious.

Yeah the feature is added to only about five ships right now, the plan was to keep it special.

Estel wrote:I still think, that separate weapon "turrets" - aka separate weapon systems, resembling artillery beam or boss weapons - would be more interesting, for both BIG ships and stations. Have you checked possibilities here?

There can always only be one artillery configuration in the game and the boss weapon rooms are a hardcoded thing. So there is little room for diversifying weapons systems. I played around with duplicating systems a little, but that just creates glitshy ship abominations...

Sleeper Service wrote: Ah ok. What did you encounter exactly?

Carriers - for sure reported AI carrier which I'm meeting almost everywhere (as I have habit of using nebulas whenever they are), but I vaguely remember other carrier. Sorry, from initial response, I thought that bug was already smashed, and haven't written it My fault - may "hunt" for it again, if that will help.

Sleeper Service wrote:Ah ok just to confirm that: Does returning to a already cleared exit beacon ALWAYS spawn the same named cruiser or not? I know I could test that myself, but you seem to have figured that out.

Yes, it is 100% probability. BTW, if you ask me, feature of having their funny names and pool of custom text is more important than minor inconvenience of this repeated encounter (as said, happening rarely, as there is no point in visiting exit beacon twice, unless sector's beacon network generated oddly).

Sleeper Service wrote:The delay replacement is also quite interesting, cause normally delays (at last from different beacons) should be added on top of each other... well at last I thought it's like that?

Now, don't take it as results of scientific tests, but my subjective feeling is that it doesn't sum up. I had at least dozen of situations, where I had to run to exit through few rebel-controlled sectors, and managed to take combo of 2-4 cruisers/battleships (in cases, where corvettes, destroyers, and fighters ,were not generating in all beacons ) Now, I never felt, that it gives me longer fleet delay - from my, again, subjective perception, it was normal delay, counted from last ship. And I surely *should* feel difference, if destroying 4 cruisers would sum up.

Now, usually, it meant, that last of those sectors was exit one - it could be affecting outcome (resulting in only last delay being carried into next sector), but I doubt it.

Side note - even IF delay would sum up, it is greatly reduced by fact, that there is huge probability of getting corvette/destroyer/fighter on rebel beacon, which doesn't give any fleet delay. Even now, "hunting" for rebel cruisers, deep into rebel territory, isn't profitable (per saldo), even in very powerful ship. As said earlier, I happened to have few cruisers/battleships in line, but other time, when I had *very* powerful ship, and purposely ravaged rebel territories, I got one cruiser per visiting all beacons on whole sector (while corvettes, destroyers and fighters put stray on my resources). It's quite luck based, too, and I never felt that probability to encounter cruisers/battleships is too high.

Also, if you would like to discourage "farming" on exit even more, the easy answer is to make those "exit" encounters harder. Either by replacing cruisers with battleships on later sectors (6+, as I suggested earlier?), or even on *all* exit beacons for *all* sectors. After all, this event text state "It's only logical to protect exit beacon as much as possible", or something like that Battleship there guaranteed, why not?

Sleeper Service wrote:There can always only be one artillery configuration in the game and the boss weapon rooms are a hardcoded thing. So there is little room for diversifying weapons systems. I played around with duplicating systems a little, but that just creates glitshy ship abominations...

Pity so dreams about battle stations with 5 or more unique weapon systems are a no-go? And I already started to hope, that they immerse crew will, finally, have something to do

BTW, un-targetable systems sounds quite logical for battle stations, or at least the bigger ones. While I'm still negative about "hidden" weapon systems (as we don't have possibility to blast weapons itself, one by one, and they tend to be quite on-surface - it sounds somehow silly, that some ships are going to have invulnerable weapons), shield system deep inside sounds only logical for big, bad Space Station. Or cloaking system, to irritate hell out of us

/Estel

Sleeper Service wrote: The report by CrazyDave concerning the glitched room that can't be hit by drones got me and kartoFlane to do a little R&D on that. We ended up with a way to create systems that can't be targeted. That was a thing I wanted to do for some time, to set certain enemies further apart from standard encounters.

So, the new Zoltan Shield Barge will have it's shield system deeply encased within the ship. This way it can't be manned, but also not damaged by any weapon fire. Deal with it!

A few other enemies also will feature internal system. The Rebel battleship for example will have encased weapon and door system. I hope to finally create a ship the player really HAS to run away from...

Glad to be of use! That's a really interesting idea. My only concern would be if an attack drone attempted to attack it, but since the room can't be targeted, would always miss - much like the bug that I reported. I actually wonder how a boarding drone would react to a room like that.

CrazyDave wrote: Glad to be of use! That's a really interesting idea. My only concern would be if an attack drone attempted to attack it, but since the room can't be targeted, would always miss - much like the bug that I reported. I actually wonder how a boarding drone would react to a room like that.

Uuuh exiting question! From what I can tell the game can handle no physical space to put the crew/drones into pretty well. It usually just moves them to room with the lowest ID (like it does when boarding the flagship weapons rooms with more than two individuals). Attack drones indeed can't hit the systems, their shots connect with the rooms around it and deal their damage there. The drone targeting bug was caused by something somehow different.

Sleeper Service wrote:I have no steam account at the moment, but you can pm me in the forum here.

i am unable to pm on here as o yet... idk
how many posts i need to make before i can

Ah don't know, about ten?

That room... it doesn't have doors i assume. Would it be possible to beam boarders into it? And what would happen on th every rare chance you sent a Boarding Drone and it picked that very room. It would be smahed right?

Very good question. I expect it being glitched, somehow. But, wasn't whole point about room-less system - basically, system not attached to room, on technical level too - or I understood it wrong way?

If not, it would mean that attack drones could choose this room to, resulting on ever more glitch, not to mention much less rare one. I hope it's not the case.

/Estel