Subset Games Forum

Meevious wrote:I think it'd make more sense and be more interesting if it were to use scrap (one for each broken up projectile), but in the aftermath, add that scrap to the scrap reward if there is one.

Now there's a great idea. Blue options:

Improved Piloting: Attempt to retrieve some of your fired flak.
Advanced Piloting: Retrieve all of your fired flak.
Scrap Recovery Arm: Attempt to retrieve some of your fired flak.
Repair Arm: Repair more of your hull with some of your fired flak.

By the way, I never said Burst Laser Mk. II shouldn't be nerfed (though I think Flak Mk. I is stronger than it if one considers its role as a support weapon, and B.L. as overall/direct attack). It could be given +1 second to charge.

Flak I is virtually the same as Burst Laser II. It's slightly worse in most cases, slightly better in a few. The biggest advantage it has over BL2 is that it only costs 65 versus 80.

Mostly I feel Flak I exists to help balance the overall weapon curve and availability. They added 2 new Burst Laser Is and they also added a new Burst II. I'm not exactly opposed to giving Burst II and Flak I small nerfs, but it's not required either. I DO think Flak I should cost more (probably 75). If people still wanted to nerf it along the lines discussed, I'd suggest costing exactly 1 scrap every time it fires; more really hurts it too much, but that would still be a useful weapon.

As for Flak II - it targets an area about 80% larger than the Flak I, so it's very inaccurate. It also has a very high 21s cooldown. It decimates shields, but a good amount of flak that makes it past shields will simply auto-miss because of the wide targeting area. Its raw damage output is much worse than a Halberd Beam, for example (same power, 6-10 damage on a lower cooldown), but obviously it has the advantage of knocking down shields as well. Overall a useful weapon, but definitely not crazy OP.

If Flak 1 had the same charge time as Burst 2, it would be slightly worse. However, its charge time is about 30% less. That more than makes up for missing some ships occasionally.

KeronCyst wrote:

Meevious wrote:I think it'd make more sense and be more interesting if it were to use scrap (one for each broken up projectile), but in the aftermath, add that scrap to the scrap reward if there is one.

Now there's a great idea. Blue options:

Improved Piloting: Attempt to retrieve some of your fired flak.
Advanced Piloting: Retrieve all of your fired flak.
Scrap Recovery Arm: Attempt to retrieve some of your fired flak.
Repair Arm: Repair more of your hull with some of your fired flak.

By the way, I never said Burst Laser Mk. II shouldn't be nerfed (though I think Flak Mk. I is stronger than it if one considers its role as a support weapon, and B.L. as overall/direct attack). It could be given +1 second to charge.

So why do you want to nerf burst laser 2 again ? If you think that it's overpowered because of burst laser 1, then you are wrong. 1 is underpowered, compared to the dual lasers(The game devs made it like that, so dual lasers are more valueable and because the "weak transport ship" joke). Burst Laser 3 fires almost the double of the lasers and only one weapon slot, but requires more power and charge time. I think that it's balanced and doesn't need any changes(It isn't that common in stores anyways).

Flak 2 is very stong, but again, like burst 3 and glaive, it needs a lot of power and charge time and it's rare on shops.
Flak 1 is more common and I think it's balanced well enough, it can miss against 0 evasion ships, you can't aim it that well against ships that don't have many rooms(autodrones), which makes it miss even more.

Hi.

I really like the idea of Flak guns costing scrap to fire! Though maybe then they would need a slight rebalance, maybe increasing slightly the number of shots and reload rate?

Twinge wrote:Flak I is virtually the same as Burst Laser II. It's slightly worse in most cases, slightly better in a few. The biggest advantage it has over BL2 is that it only costs 65 versus 80.

No, it's really not close. BL2 is much, much better.

Flak 1 projectiles are slow, mostly eliminating the charge time advantage. Not only do they miss more all the time, and miss a terrifying amount against some ships, but they can never be relied on to hit the right system. That totally changes the strategies you can use. BL2 is a scalpel that also happens to destroy shields.

Flak I is one of the best weapons in the game, especially for taking down shields. But BL2 is on another level.

Dark Jelly wrote:Flak 1 projectiles are slow, mostly eliminating the charge time advantage.

Slow projectiles are not what eliminate the Flak I charge advantage; other slower weapons are. Assuming Autofire, a BL II's projectiles will only catch up with a Flak I's for the first volley. This makes the Flak I shine at supporting slower weapons, generally beams, by taking down shields (those extra "visual" pieces can take down a shield if they don't miss--I have seen a Flak I deal a damage through 3 shields), or when used in conjunction with other fast-charge weapons (Dual Lasers, other Flak I's, BL I might be able to destroy the shield system before it becomes too unsynchronized). And, of course, the Flak I is cheaper in stores (very significant on Hard).