Engis and Oxygen

General discussion about the game.
Agent_L
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Re: Engis and Oxygen

Postby Agent_L » Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:41 am

Gorlom wrote:Obviously they need air for their cooling fans. without some way of expelling heat (the vacuum of space is cold but there's no way for the engi design to transfer it out) they overheat and malfunction. ;)

And I have no idea why they aren't water cooled or some such.

Water cooling is merely a way to transfer heat from CPU to air. At the end, it is always air that carries the waste heat away.
Unless we're talking about thermal power plants that are almost always located at the shore and permanently connected to a sea, lake or river. To cool smth you have to have access to continuous stream of some medium.

As a historic note: first human EVA was greatly complicated because Voskhod-2 computers were air cooled. So cosmonauts could not simply close their visors and open the hatch (because that's overheat all electronics and render their craft unable to return). They had to carry, install and operate an inflatable airlock (which nearly killed the first man in space, because it was too tight to turn around inside). Another thing: Leonov severely overheated himself. His body temp increased by 1.8°C in 20 minutes and he was on the verge of a heatstroke.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voskhod_2# ... VA_details

So yeah, it's pretty reasonable that lack of atmosphere kills electronics.
(aside of the fact that Engis are partially organic, as Darthcaboose wrote, in a first place)
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Kieve
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Re: Engis and Oxygen

Postby Kieve » Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:45 am

Toxo wrote:
Kieve wrote:I picture them as being very similar to the Geth from Mass Effect (most notably the first one). They might be synthetic but they're still living organisms.


Actually, the Geth didn't require oxygen :p Explained somewhere in Mass Effect 2, when you enter a Geth base.

I'm gonna have to go with what Darthcaboose said, they're still partly organic and that their organic parts require the oxygen.


Yes, I remember. "Windows are a structural weakness. Geth do not use them." /etc.
Legion was by far my favorite character, it kills me he got so very little quality time in the trilogy (and particularly, that he wasn't a squadmate in ME3).
I just mean in terms of physical appearance, the Engi strike me as being more "Geth/Crysis-suit" artificial muscle and synthetic-organic than metal-and-circuit cyborgs. That's my own interpretation of the pixels, others are welcome to their views too.
ApSciMorgs
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Re: Engis and Oxygen

Postby ApSciMorgs » Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:55 am

Kieve wrote:
Toxo wrote:
Kieve wrote:I picture them as being very similar to the Geth from Mass Effect (most notably the first one). They might be synthetic but they're still living organisms.


Actually, the Geth didn't require oxygen :p Explained somewhere in Mass Effect 2, when you enter a Geth base.

I'm gonna have to go with what Darthcaboose said, they're still partly organic and that their organic parts require the oxygen.


Yes, I remember. "Windows are a structural weakness. Geth do not use them." /etc.
Legion was by far my favorite character, it kills me he got so very little quality time in the trilogy (and particularly, that he wasn't a squadmate in ME3).
I just mean in terms of physical appearance, the Engi strike me as being more "Geth/Crysis-suit" artificial muscle and synthetic-organic than metal-and-circuit cyborgs. That's my own interpretation of the pixels, others are welcome to their views too.

They may seem similar to the geth, but they're actually closer to the Asuran from Stargate Atlantis in terms of their construction. Specifically, the fact that they're composed of millions of nano-scale machines working in tandem to create a humanoid form. I think I'm repeating myself here.
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Toxo
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Re: Engis and Oxygen

Postby Toxo » Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:29 am

Kieve wrote:
Toxo wrote:
Kieve wrote:I picture them as being very similar to the Geth from Mass Effect (most notably the first one). They might be synthetic but they're still living organisms.


Actually, the Geth didn't require oxygen :p Explained somewhere in Mass Effect 2, when you enter a Geth base.

I'm gonna have to go with what Darthcaboose said, they're still partly organic and that their organic parts require the oxygen.


Yes, I remember. "Windows are a structural weakness. Geth do not use them." /etc.
Legion was by far my favorite character, it kills me he got so very little quality time in the trilogy (and particularly, that he wasn't a squadmate in ME3).
I just mean in terms of physical appearance, the Engi strike me as being more "Geth/Crysis-suit" artificial muscle and synthetic-organic than metal-and-circuit cyborgs. That's my own interpretation of the pixels, others are welcome to their views too.


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Omegatron
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Re: Engis and Oxygen

Postby Omegatron » Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:51 pm

Depending on how Engis get power another possibility is that they need certain gasses as part of that process e.g. if they get energy from combustion of a fuel they will need oxygen for that.
Gorlom
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Re: Engis and Oxygen

Postby Gorlom » Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:08 pm

Omegatron wrote:Depending on how Engis get power another possibility is that they need certain gasses as part of that process e.g. if they get energy from combustion of a fuel they will need oxygen for that.

wouldn't that would just make them stop moving and allow them to be started again. I'd expect it to cause something more permanent since when an Engi die in the game they can't be retrieved. (but they can be deactivated since you could reactivate one in an event)
tour86rocker
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Re: Engis and Oxygen

Postby tour86rocker » Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:58 am

Derakon wrote:The real question is, why do rockmen need oxygen? They don't even have internal organs...
The Rockmen would be way too overpowered if they didn't need to breathe, in addition to their other benefits. I think the lore went too far if it really says they have no internal organs. That would seem to suggest that they shouldn't have lungs or a need of air. Unless THEY are the air-cooled ones ;)

I agree about the Engi, though. One game event demonstrates that they can be reactivated after being found abandoned. Given this, I think Engi crew shouldn't die from O2 deprivation, but instead a state of "unconsciousness" should be added to the game, where Engi crew members could be revived after battle if O2 deprivation drives their health down to zero, and they (1) are aboard your ship or are beamed back to your ship, (2) there is a conscious crew member on your ship or an activated repair drone, AND (3) no damage occurred to them in a state of unconsciousness. I'd hate to see a O2 gauge for each character in addition to the health gauge; that would get too complex. An unconscious character would have zero health and would die at the slightest provocation.

This would add a benefit to Engi crew but would not make them invincible. While they were incapacitated, they'd be vulnerable to boarding drones, fire, enemy ship weapons, or even living boarders (although the latter would be gasping for air themselves). The unconscious Engi wouldn't be reactivated every single time they suffocated, either. For instance, certain circumstances might cause you to abandon unconscious Engi crew on an enemy ship, even a disabled enemy ship after a victory. (say, the beacon was "too close to a sun", your ship is low on hull integrity, another solar flare is about to hit, half the ship is on fire including the transporter room...you get the picture. Don't tell me these haven't happened all at the same time to you; you just haven't played long enough, ha).

Not to mention that you are already pretty likely to lose the game if you have crew suffocating down to zero health in the first place. I see it as a harmless, but fun change.
tour86rocker
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Re: Engis and Oxygen

Postby tour86rocker » Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:04 am

Gorlom wrote:
Omegatron wrote:Depending on how Engis get power another possibility is that they need certain gasses as part of that process e.g. if they get energy from combustion of a fuel they will need oxygen for that.

wouldn't that would just make them stop moving and allow them to be started again. I'd expect it to cause something more permanent since when an Engi die in the game they can't be retrieved. (but they can be deactivated since you could reactivate one in an event)
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Gorlom
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Re: Engis and Oxygen

Postby Gorlom » Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:23 pm

tour86rocker: there has been 3 hypothesis presented. only the fuel one makes engies go inactive/unconscious.
the other 2 A) organic components B) Overheating due to not being able to cool itself without atmosphere, both provide a reason for why they would die.

wait.... You aren't trying to make the game fit the explanation are you? you're just excited about the idea of a new mechanic aren't you? NVM
Mr. Mister
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Re: Engis and Oxygen

Postby Mr. Mister » Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:30 pm

I love the cooling fans explanation, even if it doesn't make that much sense because they could use CO2 too to refrigerate themselves.

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