Ship sizes (dfferent teirs)

General discussion about the game.
Spidd124
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:45 am

Ship sizes (dfferent teirs)

Postby Spidd124 » Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:03 am

I was think of an idea for Ftl. Its for different ship classes like small, medium and large. Small being weaker but having a higher dodge chance whilst the large class of ships could be able to soak up damage but have bad dodge chance and medium being the middle ground where the current ships are.
Last edited by Spidd124 on Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Madhax
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:52 pm

Re: Ship sizes (dfferent teirs)

Postby Madhax » Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:22 am

I'd like to see bigger ships, definitely. Something on par with or perhaps even larger than the Flagship. Terrible evade, takes a lot of hits but can tank them all day, with some big, slow cannons.
UberFubarius
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:31 pm

Re: Ship sizes (dfferent teirs)

Postby UberFubarius » Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:25 pm

I love this idea. May I supply a few details and see if it fit with your idea.
1. Scale the ship system with its size. The following differences are related to the Normal sized ship.
Small Ships (Corvette/Fighter style):
Reactor: Capacity reduced to 20 (normally 25).
Engine: Grants 2x Evasion (max evade = 70%. Total evade 90% with fully trained crew and helm)
Hull: Reduced to 20 Hull Points.

Large Ship (Capital ships):
Reactor: Capacity increased to 30.
Engine: Grants less Evasion (max evade = 20%)
Hull: Increase of 60 Hull points.

Alternatively, we can have different "augments" to implement the differences.
Light Armor Plating: +100% engine evasion. +100% damage received (effectively halves hull points). Hull repair at half price.
Capital Ship Armor: -50% engine evasion. 30% chance to resist hull damage.

The game would probably have to have a sort of "paging" system for ship selection (so we have pages of 9 ships we can flip through), so we can add more ship.
Aerowind
Posts: 80
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:11 pm

Re: Ship sizes (dfferent teirs)

Postby Aerowind » Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:14 pm

UberFubarius wrote:I love this idea. May I supply a few details and see if it fit with your idea.
1. Scale the ship system with its size. The following differences are related to the Normal sized ship.
Small Ships (Corvette/Fighter style):
Reactor: Capacity reduced to 20 (normally 25).
Engine: Grants 2x Evasion (max evade = 70%. Total evade 90% with fully trained crew and helm)
Hull: Reduced to 20 Hull Points.

Large Ship (Capital ships):
Reactor: Capacity increased to 30.
Engine: Grants less Evasion (max evade = 20%)
Hull: Increase of 60 Hull points.

Alternatively, we can have different "augments" to implement the differences.
Light Armor Plating: +100% engine evasion. +100% damage received (effectively halves hull points). Hull repair at half price.
Capital Ship Armor: -50% engine evasion. 30% chance to resist hull damage.

The game would probably have to have a sort of "paging" system for ship selection (so we have pages of 9 ships we can flip through), so we can add more ship.


I like it, but 90% evade is way too much. It could probably be balanced by allowing no shield system though.

Then again, Beams would wreck it.
UberFubarius
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:31 pm

Re: Ship sizes (dfferent teirs)

Postby UberFubarius » Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:48 pm

Aerowind wrote:I like it, but 90% evade is way too much. It could probably be balanced by allowing no shield system though.

Then again, Beams would wreck it.

The 90% evade only happens when you have max engine and max skilled crew in helm and engine.
It does sort of need that 90% evade to compensate its reduced hull strength.
Another "tweak" could be that its shield upgrades' costs ramp faster, or its regen rate is slower.
0evil_overlord0
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:32 am

Re: Ship sizes (dfferent teirs)

Postby 0evil_overlord0 » Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:47 pm

There is a mod that lets you use the flagship and the foundation of the federation mod will have scout-class ships. They can give you an idea for what ships like that would work in the game. I think this would be awesome to have in the game.
furyfire
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:52 am

Re: Ship sizes (dfferent teirs)

Postby furyfire » Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:26 pm

In my opinion, the ships in the game represent the small classes: from fighter to frigate, and even light cruiser. The combat mechanics actually support this, with dodge playing a role - which hints at the playable and NPC ships being light classes.

The bigger classes are just referenced in the game. If you notice that when you have to enter system taken over by rebels, the ships on the backgrounds are clearly large ships. The game even telling you to scram out of there before the "cruisers" have a lock at you.

Introducing bigger ships would represent a challenge in incorporating it supposed greatly reduced dodge (if it even has it). FTL's combat mechanics really do reflect small ship combat. Large capital ships, although in theory can fly as fast as fighters considering that space is frictionless - would still be hard to maneuver and present themselves as big targets. So the nature of large ship vs large ship combat would be long and drawn out, exemplified by graceful course plottings and efficient targeting solutions that can lead to combat via trading volleys. This is compared to the smaller ship combat exemplified by daring maneuvers.

Disclaimer: all my experience of space combat are derived from star wars and the warhammer 40k universe novels (the latter being more superior in my opinion, especially fiction from Gav Thorpe); though I am aware and have seen Star Trek and Battle Star Galactica, seeing some huge ships doing dodging maneuvers.


You might say that the Rebel Flagship boss in the game is a big ship, and it can dodge. And that simple statement messes up my entire logic. In my defence, I class that ship as a Cruiser (heavy cruiser) not a battleship or capital ship. And who know's maybe its the fact that it has attributes of a smaller ship when it comes to maneuverability but the strength and firepower of a battleship that makes it so threatening to the federation, and it is also the reason why fighters like the player himself are sent to deal with it rather than the larger ship of the line. Because it is the lighter ships that could keep up with it in the stellar dogfights. A flagship doesn't necessarily have to be the biggest of the fleet, it only need to be the baddest ;)



So about ship sizes being implemented? I guess we could only go as far as cruisers (not heavy cruisers). Introducing thew slow moving bigger classes, would be difficult for the weapons system to react to lighter ships (imagine the smaller frigates swooping around the sides of the bigger battleship - the latter's weapon systems not able to aim at the same time as compared to the forward mountain weapons of the smaller ship.)

-These cruisers would be roughly the size of the Rebel flagship.
-Their usual crew complement 3 times the size of the smaller classes which would mean at least 5 and at most 20 crew members in my opinion.
-They would be blessed by having 5-6 weapon ports or have 4 weapon ports and 1-2 ports for heavy weapons (bigger and badder versions but will take a long time to reload).
-multiple weapon rooms to represent battery arrays. At least 2. The weapons box can be divided into two this way.
-or have a separate room and weapons box for the heavy weapons. (this could vary between ship design)
-While shield technology would still be at par with the smaller counterparts (max 4)...
-...its hull should be able to take a beating having higher health. No need to have resistance or decreased damaged taken, if you have high health it translates enough. Plus the fact that some systems are divided into more than 1 rooms, it'll be more difficult to incapacitate a big ship.
-When fighting smaller ships (fighters) 25%-50% of the weapons would have a higher chance to miss, this is because the cruiser will have difficulty bringing all its weapons to bear on a nimble target.
-when fighting with other cruisers, combat would be normal

---alternatively, to be able to represent larger ships, a new combat mechanic could be introduced. You want ships tiered? Then you might want to have combat tiered as well:
When large ships face one another there will be several phases of combat:
-Long range: wherein the heavy weapon ports take part and missiles take part. No teleporting allowed, and dodge chance is normal. This will often be the start of the battle unless scripted events would have you at closer ranges.
-Mid range: wherein the normal weapon ports can take part. Still no teleporting. Dodge chance is decreased.
-Broadside range: All weapons can fire. Teleporting is available. Dodge chance is left to a bare minimum. Pray that your shields hold.

-each phase can last for a few seconds probably 10-15. Then either let the next stage be another succeeding stage (e.i. long<>mid<>broadside), or let it be controlled by the player and the AI.
-You might have set up your ship to be long ranged and thus want to stay in the long ranged phase as much as possible.
-chance of going to your desired phase will be determined by engines and piloting. But the chance must never be 100 percent, this could be reduced by the enemy's preference or coded as non-100%. To allow randomness.
-think about it. You're destroying them with your heavy lance beams but wait, that rock heavy cruiser is closing in fast, they're at mid range now charging their weapons for the eventual broadside. Reduce power to weapon batteries and switch to engines, get us out of here! (chance failed: enemy at broadside range, you detected teleporter signals all over your ship) :twisted:

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