The DA-SR 12 is godawful and needs a buff.

General discussion about the game.
embair
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:02 pm

Re: The DA-SR 12 is godawful and needs a buff.

Postby embair » Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:15 am

I think a nice little conservative buff would be FTL recharge booster. So that in those unavoidable omigod-im-completely-screwed encounters you at least get a decent chance to make it out of there alive.

Seriously? I am having a 100% win rate (Normal difficulty) for sector 1/2 using the DA-SR 12. Simple early-game guide:

1. Before first 50 scrap, put 2 into Cloak and just 1 Zoltan powering the engine. The rest into Weapons/Pilot.
2. First 50 scrap goes into Cloak 3. Turn off Oxygen to use Cloak. Breathing is overrated, anyway.
3. You're set for your early game.


Cool story bro. I am always doing exactly this and half of the time i get killed before i even get the first 50 scrap. (more details in this thread viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3516).
TheKillerNacho
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:19 pm

Re: The DA-SR 12 is godawful and needs a buff.

Postby TheKillerNacho » Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:37 pm

Granted, its a tough ship to use early in the game. Its especially prone to losing to an unlucky jump in Sector 1.

However, its starting gear is extremely powerful. If you build it right and have a (relatively) lucky first couple sectors, the DA-SR12 is one of the more powerful late-game ships, one that I have successfully beaten the boss several times on Easy and a couple times on Normal.
UberFubarius
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:31 pm

Re: The DA-SR 12 is godawful and needs a buff.

Postby UberFubarius » Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:57 pm

srulz wrote:1. Before first 50 scrap, put 2 into Cloak and just 1 Zoltan powering the engine. The rest into Weapons/Pilot.
2. First 50 scrap goes into Cloak 3. Turn off Oxygen to use Cloak. Breathing is overrated, anyway.
3. You're set for your early game.

I find that... hard to believe unless you've been really, REALLY lucky..
Consider the following.
If you encounter ANY offensive drone, there's next to zero chance for your glaive to charge before their drone hit you a few times. Even at lvl 3 cloak, 15 second cloak, with 25 second charge, with a lvl 1 crew manning it, still gives about 8 second for the drone to hit you 2 ~ 3 times.
Plus even with cloak, your initial engine means that your dodge chance is about 75% even in cloak, which means that there's still a chance for any of their shots to hit your weapon (again, reseting your glaive).

Maze1125 wrote:Stop whining.
If a battle goes badly, jump out. If it doesn't, you've probably just annihilated an enemy with one shot.

Have you actually tried Stealth ship B? If their weapon even hit your weapon system before you get one shot off you're more or less screwed. You're guaranteed to suffer a lot of hull damage before your FTL drive can even charge (best hope they don't hit your helm, or your engine in the mean time).

TheKillerNacho wrote:Granted, its a tough ship to use early in the game. Its especially prone to losing to an unlucky jump in Sector 1.

However, its starting gear is extremely powerful. If you build it right and have a (relatively) lucky first couple sectors, the DA-SR12 is one of the more powerful late-game ships, one that I have successfully beaten the boss several times on Easy and a couple times on Normal.

I think the keyword is "lucky". It's not just normal luck, but a crap ton of luck. If you manage to encounter any of the following enemy before you find shield, there's a very good chance you'll be taking a lot of hull damage (and perhaps prevent you from getting a shield in the first place due to scraps needed).
Zoltan shielded enemy (almost guaranteed that your first shot is wasted).
Enemy with drones (almost guaranteed that you'll get shot a few time, unless your meager dodge chance managed to avoid all of it or they all miss your weapon).
Any enemy with weapon that has mismatched cooldown (you have to choose either to dodge the first volley with cloak and risk the second volley without, or vice-versa).
Last edited by UberFubarius on Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
UberFubarius
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:31 pm

Re: The DA-SR 12 is godawful and needs a buff.

Postby UberFubarius » Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:01 pm

I would agree that DA-SR 12 is extremely power when you get really lucky.
The best luck I had was getting a Weapon Pre-Ignitor within the first few jump of second sector. After that, it's pretty much steam roll enemies after enemies ("Beaming" priority Drone>Weapon>Shield*>O2>Medbay. Shield is starred because if given the choice, I always try to swipe my beam such that shield get hit early).
Beam once, if that don't kill them, I got more than enough time with default cloak to get the second shot in. Only difficulties are zoltan shield, or worse, zoltan with drones.
icepick
Posts: 344
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:18 pm

Re: The DA-SR 12 is godawful and needs a buff.

Postby icepick » Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:11 pm

UberFubarius wrote:still gives about 8 second for the drone to hit you 2 ~ 3 times.


2-3 drone shots is hardly game-ending...

It's a difficult ship, but that doesn't necessitate a buff. There are several ships that are difficult to start with, it's okay for them to be difficult.
Mottikhan
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:46 pm

Re: The DA-SR 12 is godawful and needs a buff.

Postby Mottikhan » Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:18 pm

All this talk has me looking forward to using the B type stealth. I just unlocked it last night, but haven't had a chance to take it for a spin.

Sounds like a challenge. :D
embair
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:02 pm

Re: The DA-SR 12 is godawful and needs a buff.

Postby embair » Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:18 pm

icepick wrote:2-3 drone shots is hardly game-ending...


It is when a single hit to weapons room means pretty much game over. (no, you will not repair and recharge the glaive, nor manage to charge your FTL when under constant fire of a beam drone AND an enemy ship)

Tonight I finally got that lucky start and as others said once you get past early game the ship is a powerhouse. Was one of the easies boss fights ever (Glaive + Burst laser 2 + Ion bomb + Anti-ship drone I + Anti-ship drone II + stealth weapons, need I say more 8-)). But I still hate that ship, wasn't nearly as frustrated with any other layout. (Though I don't have all ships unlocked yet)
Galdred
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:40 am

Re: The DA-SR 12 is godawful and needs a buff.

Postby Galdred » Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:35 am

The problem with this ship is that is has no redeeming feature except for the glaive beam : even the engi B has something for it (3 sized drone bay) :
The DA-SR12 has 3 weapon bay, a so-so augment, 2 (!) medbay. It just feel gimped until the end of the game, unlike the Mantis B for instance, which has rough beginning, but gets powerful later on, the DA-SR12 never gets "special". It keeps being frustrating from the beginning to the end.

It is indeed possible to get almost 100% chance of getting out of sector 1-2, but a few crippling issues remain : by sector 3, you cease one shotting ennemies, and the glaive performs badly against 2 shield, and not at all against 3 (which you can meet as soon as sector 4), so you need to upgrade weapons at the same time (as which every other ship, but they don't need you to pay that much repair bills, and get a shield on top of that.

I would really like the DA-SR12 to have an unique augment to make it feel a bit special.
UberFubarius
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:31 pm

Re: The DA-SR 12 is godawful and needs a buff.

Postby UberFubarius » Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:16 pm

Galdred wrote:I would really like the DA-SR12 to have an unique augment to make it feel a bit special.


I will argue for the same.
Here is a few thoughts on that.
1. Special Augment - "Active Camouflage": Similar behavior to medbay, while your cloak system is powered (and not ioned), it provides you the following benefits:
A. +30% evasion (additive to existing evasion).
B. -50% enemy weapon charge rate. Enemy can still fire on your ship.
In short, the idea is that the first benefit improve your survivability against drones, while the second benefit increase the time it take for the enemy to attack you. Of course, it became important in determining when you want to active your cloak, since after you cloak depletes the benefit disappears until the ion cool-down completes.
In the end-game, with shield, this can potentially become very powerful since it gives you (with max engine and crew) a CONSTANT 85% dodge chance.

2. New System - "Blinker", replaces existing cloak: This idea is to provide Stealth ship and unique take on its main ability. Instead of a fixed cloak duration, the Blinker allow you to cycle the cloak effect on and off, with the following caveats.
A. Blinker can only be engaged when its fully charged.
B. Disengaging the Blinker before it full depletes will cause the Blinker to lose half of its remaining cloak time.
C. Maximum cloak time is always 10 seconds.
D. Cloak recharge rate vary by level. At level 1, it takes 20 seconds to reach full charge, 15 seconds at level 2, and 10 seconds at level 1.
The idea here is that it makes the cloak ship's cloaking system much more "tactical". You can (and as most player would do), use cloak just to "avoid" enemy fires and quickly toggle them off when the danger has passed. You still have at least 5~10+ seconds window (time for recharge to recover the 50% cloak lost when you deactivate it fairly early into the cloak). But it's still better than the existing cloak cooldown time (which is... what? 20 seconds?).
P.S. If you play TF2, you'll recognize where I got the behavior from.

3. New System - "Hacking Module" (replace shield?): This idea is a sort of extension to the stereostypical sci-fi stealth type, hacking the enemy's ship (kind of like enemy hacking your ship, except in reverse!). It needs to be targeted on a subsystem, and once it did, it disable a certain amount of power bar from the subsystem.
LVL 1: Remove 33% of power bar, rounding down.
LVL 2: Remove 66% of power bar, rounding down.
LVL 3: Remove 99% of power bar, rounding down (in effect, regardless of how much "power" they have in that system, it now has just one).
Perhaps for balancing, the system will take 20 seconds to "initialize", after 20 seconds, it will successfully "hack" the enemy ship and disable the power.
Jotoco
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:45 pm

Re: The DA-SR 12 is godawful and needs a buff.

Postby Jotoco » Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:03 pm

When the enemy fires, keep pausing until the laser is right at the edge of your screen.

See where it comes from, and angle it through your ship. Will it hit Cloak OR Weapons? No? Let it hit. Yes? Activate Cloak.

This will greatly enhance your start.

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