The DA-SR 12 is godawful and needs a buff.

General discussion about the game.
Sli Fi
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:14 am

The DA-SR 12 is godawful and needs a buff.

Postby Sli Fi » Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:47 am

The DA-SR 12 is the second layout of the stealth ship. It starts with level 2 cloak and a Glaive Beam that takes 25 seconds to charge. Sounds good, right? Wrong.

In actual gameplay, a single hit to the weapons bay or the cloak room means you're pretty much going to die. The Glaive Beam takes 4 power, and the Weapons Bay has 4 power. One hit therefore resets the 25 second timer. If the enemy starts with a beam weapon, your only hope is to wait 5-10 seconds while praying that it hits empty rooms, then FINALLY cloak and kill the enemy (in one hit) afterwards. If it's a beam drone instead of a beam weapon, then you're royally screwed before the fight even begins.

With the Nesasio, your weapons have short enough charge times that you can usually disable the enemy weapon system (read: beams) in the first cloak dodge cycle. With the DA-SR 12, on the other hand, the enemy has 25 SECONDS of full weapon function before that can happen.

I've managed to beat the game on normal with several different ships, but I've never gotten past sector 3 in the DA-SR 12 (on normal). Yes, I'm obviously activating the cloak immediately after a laser/missile is fired. No, it never saves me from the weapon damage that inevitably occurs.

The DA-SR 12 needs a serious buff to make it on par with the other ships. If you disagree, try playing it yourself and coming back. Some suggestions for potential buffs (pick your poison):

-Starts with one shield point like the Noether (takes 100 scrap to upgrade to the first shield bar).
-Starts with an additional Engi to help counter the weapon bay/cloak damage.
-Starts with Titanium System Casing to help counter the weapon bay/cloak damage.
-Starts with 5 weapon points to help counter the weapon bay damage.
-Starts with the same Engine power as the Nesasio to help dodge.
-Starts with +1 Power.
-Starts with Automated Reloader to slightly shorten the time during which you can't do anything.
-Starts with Weapon Pre-igniter. (LOL OP)
Last edited by Sli Fi on Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Gorlom
Posts: 519
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:06 am

Re: The DA-SR 12 is godawful and needs a buff.

Postby Gorlom » Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:02 am

I suggest buying a stealth upgrade asap so that you have 8 seconds ((charge time)-(rank 3 stealth duration)-(crew manning the console bonus) 25-15-2.5=7.5) of the enemy charging his weapons before your weapon fires.

Enemy weapons should be less hassle. The drone is still a problem but you will have to tough it out for those 8 seconds and aim at his drone control asap :p
GhoXen
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:29 am

Re: The DA-SR 12 is godawful and needs a buff.

Postby GhoXen » Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:45 am

Glaive beam is god-damn powerful. One well-aimed hit and most ships in the first three sectors should go boom. The weapon is also one of the rarest out there. In all my playthroughs (a couple dozens at least by now) I have only come across one Glaive Beam. It wasn't found in a store either, instead it dropped off one of those Rebel cargo ships.

It's kinda like the second layout for Mantis ship. Four-man teleporter, just like Glaive beam, can be incredibly powerful, but at the start you will be very disadvantaged and rely a lot on luck. If you pack some shields and two ion weapons onto DA-SR 12, then your ship will laugh at everything that moves, including the final boss.

DA-SR 12 doesn't need a buff. Type B ships in most cases seem to be the ships which initially start out with major weaknesses, but towards the end are the most powerful (with a couple exceptions of course, e.g. Engi).
Eji1700
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:26 pm

Re: The DA-SR 12 is godawful and needs a buff.

Postby Eji1700 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:11 am

GhoXen wrote:Glaive beam is god-damn powerful. One well-aimed hit and most ships in the first three sectors should go boom. The weapon is also one of the rarest out there. In all my playthroughs (a couple dozens at least by now) I have only come across one Glaive Beam. It wasn't found in a store either, instead it dropped off one of those Rebel cargo ships.

It's kinda like the second layout for Mantis ship. Four-man teleporter, just like Glaive beam, can be incredibly powerful, but at the start you will be very disadvantaged and rely a lot on luck. If you pack some shields and two ion weapons onto DA-SR 12, then your ship will laugh at everything that moves, including the final boss.

DA-SR 12 doesn't need a buff. Type B ships in most cases seem to be the ships which initially start out with major weaknesses, but towards the end are the most powerful (with a couple exceptions of course, e.g. Engi).

This is generally super poor design though. The idea that the next X games i'm going to lose sector 1/2 no matter what I do, until the one run through where I don't and then I pwn the hell out of everything really just feels pointless.
It's basically watch the RNG decide if you get to fire your weapon and win. Even if you upgarde the cloak there are many fights that flat out kill you early, and if not you'll probably be limping into sector 2 with less scrap from running and a damaged ship.


I feel similarly about the B variant engi ship(the vortex) which has 1 crew, no sensors, and lvl 1 engines for the "advantage" of a weapon combo which requires a 13 second cooldown weapon to deal damage and can't penetrate a lvl 1 shield otherwise, 2 system repair drones and their super sub par AI(ESPECIALLY when dealing with fire), an anti personnel drone, and an aug that makes the drones move faster.

In short, several very very defensive bonuses that help you AFTER you've lost hull points(and money due to future repairs) and even then they are in fact MUCH worse than standard crew(which can man stations, don't take power, and can be microd). The only advantage I've found so far is that you can space most of the ship since your only living lifeform starts in the pilots seat, but god forbid you get unlucky and actually need to use him to repair something then.

In both cases I really think the huge issue is the cooldown of the main weapon(13 seconds, but can miss vs 25) combined with NO defensive abilities. Poor engines makes you take even more damage than normal(the vortex can't even man them), and the DA lacks shielding. This works on the Zoltan because you aren't stuck with horrendous repair bills or damaged systems everywhere thanks to the zoltan shield at least giving you one salvo to target some systems. I think in both cases having the augments changed(Long range sensors and the drone aug) to something that could help them mitigate the sector one randomness would help a ton.
srulz
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:58 am

Re: The DA-SR 12 is godawful and needs a buff.

Postby srulz » Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:14 am

Eji1700 wrote:This is generally super poor design though. The idea that the next X games i'm going to lose sector 1/2 no matter what I do, until the one run through where I don't and then I pwn the hell out of everything really just feels pointless.


Seriously? I am having a 100% win rate (Normal difficulty) for sector 1/2 using the DA-SR 12. Simple early-game guide:

1. Before first 50 scrap, put 2 into Cloak and just 1 Zoltan powering the engine. The rest into Weapons/Pilot.
2. First 50 scrap goes into Cloak 3. Turn off Oxygen to use Cloak. Breathing is overrated, anyway.
3. You're set for your early game.

Depending on your confidence/situation, you can (in no order of priority):
1. Save up for shields.
2. Get more energy.
3. Improve your Weapons so 1 lucky hit doesn't mean your Glaive Beam is down.
Your Glaive Beam is good enough to walk over everything the 1st 2 sectors.
Sli Fi
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:14 am

Re: The DA-SR 12 is godawful and needs a buff.

Postby Sli Fi » Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:42 pm

@GhoXen It doesn't matter if the Glaive beam is the most powerful weapon in the game if it can't disable the weapon systems before they hit it.

@srulz Getting 3 Cloak does help slightly, though it still only grants 75% evasion with 1 engine power. That is only enough to completely avoid a burst laser II (remarkably common in sector 1-2) less than half of the time. Maybe even a 1 power upgrade would be an appropriate buff so that the player isn't forced to shut off oxygen.
Maze1125
Posts: 144
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 12:09 pm

Re: The DA-SR 12 is godawful and needs a buff.

Postby Maze1125 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:57 pm

Stop whining.
If a battle goes badly, jump out. If it doesn't, you've probably just annihilated an enemy with one shot.
Gorlom
Posts: 519
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:06 am

Re: The DA-SR 12 is godawful and needs a buff.

Postby Gorlom » Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:20 pm

Sli Fi wrote:@srulz Getting 3 Cloak does help slightly, though it still only grants 75% evasion with 1 engine power. That is only enough to completely avoid a burst laser II (remarkably common in sector 1-2) less than half of the time. Maybe even a 1 power upgrade would be an appropriate buff so that the player isn't forced to shut off oxygen.

Have you tried to instead of cloaking after they fired to cloak asap when the battle starts?

You do know that the cloak prevents their weapons from charging right? :|

with a rank 3 cloak and a guy manning the weapon console your weapon will fire after allowing the enemies to charge their weapons for only 8 seconds. That shouldn't be enough for them to fire first. ;)
LegioCorvus
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:16 am

Re: The DA-SR 12 is godawful and needs a buff.

Postby LegioCorvus » Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:41 am

The DA-SR 12 is heavily dependent on luck.

I think the most difficult part of the ship is the lack of evade. Even when the engine is fully powered and stealth is on, it's only at 80%. Which, of course, isn't possible at the start unless you pull a meter of energy off the stealth. So then it's a question of longer stealth at 75% max evade, or higher evade and less stealth. I've had this ship go down in the first sector during a stealth simply because of that. With a 4 meter energy weapon, it only takes a scratch.

It also has the problem of the Nesasio in that an early game drone is going to hurt, and if they happen to have a missile and/or Zoltan shield you have to pray for the best. That's probably the intent of the designers, that the stealth ships take a bit of luck along with stealth to get going right, but the DA-SR 12 feels like it leans a little to heavily in that direction. I'd argue that the Nesasio can be taken the final zone on skill with barely more luck than the other ships, but not the DA-SR 12.

Undeniably, if this ship gets rolling, it's a powerhouse, but it take a significant amount of luck to get it rolling.
hborrgg
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:46 pm

Re: The DA-SR 12 is godawful and needs a buff.

Postby hborrgg » Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:07 am

I sort of feel that shots dodged while cloaking should count towards your crew's experience. Because as it is with the stealth ships your pilot and engine technician just never level up until sector 6 or so (or until you get some shields) even though the stealths are the ones that need that little bit of extra dodge most.

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