Some discussion on balance changes

General discussion about the game.
karadoc
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:01 pm

Re: Some discussion on balance changes

Postby karadoc » Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:12 am

mqstout wrote:Teleporters Fix: Don't let teleporters go through shields. Yours and/or your opponents. Watch some Star Trek and others, and you'll see that's what happens. To use the teleporter, all levels of your shields are dropped and have to recharge. You also have to reduce your enemy's shields. (Perhaps they pierce through Teleporter-System-Level layers of shields.)

I reckon this is probably a good idea - including the high-level teleporters being able to pierce shields. I think it neatly address the overpowerful and risk-free nature of teleporters without introducing any new randomness. As I said in my earlier post, I feel that the main problem with teleporters is that they are so safe. There just isn't much risk involve in sending in a boarding party - and it is almost always very effective, even if all you're doing is distracting the enemy crew so that they aren't repairing systems. If teleporters could be blocked by shields, then you might find that your boarding party can't be recalled when you need it because your lases missed, or because the enemy repaired their shields, or whatever; and so that creates a new level of risk.

Unfortunately, I don't think the changes really fit with some part of the current game. For example, the couple of the ships which start with no weapons would probably need some tweaks; and there would probably need to be some other balance changes elsewhere. The Enhanced Edition might be a suitable time to introduce a big change like this, but otherwise I don't really think it's suitable change for an ordinary patch. It would have a significant effect on how the game is played.


(I think the other suggestions in mqstout's post were decent as well.)
Red Rocket
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:47 pm

Re: Some discussion on balance changes

Postby Red Rocket » Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:51 am

Well maybe this could work, but I think only teleporting when the enemiesshield is down works better.
The teleporter could have a constant cooldown of 20 seconds, but every level get you through an other level of shields.
So mantis B for instance, starts with level 1 teleport so it can get through level 1 shields.
Level 2 could go trough 2 shields, but keeps a cooldown of 20 seconds
Level 3 - 3 shields - 20 seconds cooldown
Level 4 - 4 shields - 20 seconds cooldown

This combined with the suggested chance to remove or replace the rewards of destroying a ship vs killing their crew, would make boarding a lot less overpowered.
Treamayne
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:07 pm

Re: Some discussion on balance changes

Postby Treamayne » Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:12 pm

Just to throw an idea out there, what if the Teleporter level dictated the number of pads available?

Level 1 - 20 Seconds, only 1 pad
Level 2 - 15 Seconds, 2 Pads (ships with 2 pad rooms can't go higher than this)
Level 3 - 10 Seconds, 3 Pads
Level 4 - 10 Seconds, 4 Pads

With or without the shield Piercing/With or without the rewards changes.

Or, instead of having regular shields be a barrier (like Zoltan shields are - and that is likely one of the "perks" of them) they could add an augmentation, similar to the FTL Jammer - Teleporter Jammer. Then, with this involved, you increase the percentage of instance for an enemy ship to have Anti-personnel drones, Blast doors and/or a teleporter jammer. The risk here is that, like the FTL Jammer doubling charge time, the Teleporter jammer would double the refresh - so you don't realize you are jammed until you are over there.
V/R

Treamayne
UltraMantis
Posts: 2141
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:17 pm

Re: Some discussion on balance changes

Postby UltraMantis » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:48 pm

Teleporting has allways been OP. And the counter for teleporting on the enemy side has allways been the same. A medbay! Plus some AntiPersonnel drones and Rock crew...

Drones and Rocks simply take longer to die and during this time you are facing incoming enemy fire. If you also have to aim your own weapons on their medbay, it would give them a few extra shots at you. You should still win because boarding is very strong, but you will pay a higher price for it IF the enemy is a little more boarding-resistant.

I don't think it's possible or neccesary to nerf boarding. Boarding is satisfying! AE already introduces the Clone Bay which eliminates healing (except druing an FTL jump) but promises immortality. That should put a new twist on an old tale. Aside from that boarding will still be a sensible strategy if you have the crew for it.

Speaking of crew, the Lanius are interesting because they don't need air and they can punch things in the face. They might give Mantis a run for their money when it comes to boarding. Mantis do extra damage, but so does an airless room ;) And the Lanius bring a lack of breathable air wherever they go...
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Red Rocket
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:47 pm

Re: Some discussion on balance changes

Postby Red Rocket » Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:35 pm

The AI doesn't help that boarding is OP.
Most ships don't have high level doors and even less have a door to vent air.(not that the current AI will ever vent rooms)

That boarding takes a little more time is no problem, because the enemies don't use their weapons effectively. (Shooting lasers at shields, or a basic laser at a level 2 shield)
Also if you depend more on boarding you have more scrap to spent on defenses (shield/engines)

The lanius could balance this a little bit, because I think it's hard to program the AI to open doors and deplete rooms. The lanius don't need this because they do it then selfs. I hope this will also work well at ship with a mixed crew.
Aulus
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:01 am

Re: Some discussion on balance changes

Postby Aulus » Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:42 am

Love the suggestion to give more scrap for destroying and more rewards for boarding, with boarding having the overall-higher return, especially since that encourages boarding-heavy ships to make use of all the drones and missiles they loot - diversification is always good.

As far as teleportation, I was thinking something along these lines:

-Base 5% chance to fail on a per unit basis, plus 5+5(level)% for each level of shielding for the following risk of failure:

Lv.0 - 5%
Lv.1 - 15%
Lv.2 - 30%
Lv.3 - 50%
Lv.4 - 75%

-In the event of failure, one of three penalties will result randomly:

33% chance for unit to be transported to a different room on the target ship.
33% chance unit's health will be halved due to a failure to fully remazerialize.
33% chance of death - unit's matter will simply bounce off the shields into space.

The failure check would happen in both directions, so to get your team back you'll have to disable their shields again. This would, of course, accompany a higher chance of door upgrades on enemy vessels. I'd also love to see the AI able to use the doors to deoxygenate boarded rooms, but that's probably too much to ask.

Just a final thought from watching Star Trek: perhaps your own shields should completely stop friendly teleportation, so to beam anyone in or out you'd have to lower your shields. No more reward without risk.
Levgre
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:35 pm

Re: Some discussion on balance changes

Postby Levgre » Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:41 pm

On the topic of humans, I'd prefer they instantly start with a leveled ability or two, instead of more rapid leveling.

Every other racial ability is an instant bonus. That is a strong asset, and insta-leveling humans would make them analogous. Think DnD, where humans start with extra skills/feats.

I think two skills of the player's choice would be balanced (probably only 1 star, not able to level up the same ability twice, but really that could be fine too). The leveling bonuses are quite small compared to racial bonuses, and unless you pick repair/combat you'll never be able to utilize 2 of the abilities at the same time.

It can also help ships that have a hard time leveling up certain skills, like for some ships leveling up weapons is a pain, for others you are easily maxed by sector 3. Or if you put off building up your ships shields for awhile.

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