Beta Release Discussion

[CEO]

Kickstarters allow you to donate to projects you think deserve a chance to see production. You are not an investor in the true (or any really) sense of the word. Think of it more like donating ... you give $20 to the ACS at a 5k; you can expect to get the t-shirt as a "thank you" but you dont get any imput on how the t-shirt looks (or what that $20 will go towards).

If you want to feel better, look at it this way: some of us missed the kickstarter. Regardless of when they release the game (beta, whatever), you'll be playing it months before me.

[Qhesz]

I am genuinely curious, why is a hard date so meaningful for you?

A reasonable person would assume beta is right around the corner with that much funding, a playable alpha, and promise of impending beta access.

Funding does not make a beta.
The devs putting in time and effort make a beta. More funding gives the devs an opportunity to spend more of their time making the game Even Betterer™ before release, thus possibly taking longer.

The rationale of adding more to the game and expanding goals is unacceptable. Your backers didn't back you for expanded goals,

I can't remember a single kickstarter of late that hasn't had stretch goals as part of the deal.

Surely we all want you to make a wonderful game and to take your time doing it, but one would assume that they would be included in that process

You are going to be included in that process. You will have access to the beta, when it is ready.

We have been more than generous as backers and received nothing in return. It is ridiculous.

Patience, padawan.

In general, I think you need to be more trusting of the dev team. These two guys have devoted their lives to this game, and you make them out to be greedy bastards who've taken your money and abandoned the project. I trust in their decisions producing this game, and I trust that when they know when the beta will be, they'll let you know.

As a bit of a nit-picky aside, you can't say it was a gift and also expect something in return, it's one or the other.
Personally, like CEO, I see kickstarter as more philanthropic, but I also understand if you feel you've purchased something and deserve to get what you 'paid for'. As for when you recieve that, the devs gave you their best estimate, but (funnilly enough), $190k changed that estimate a little.

[USAgent]

I can understand the sense of disappointment or loss of enthusiasm, but overall this seems to be a bit much. How many times have games you pre-ordered from Gamestop or Amazon been pushed back or delayed? How many times have games with much larger development teams faced issues or moved release dates back? I think it is fair that you want something that you paid for, but in this case you're backing a project - you're a supporter of a game in development which aimed for a release date but saw it more fit to polish the product than rush a release. There seems to be some misconception that $=answer to all problems, and while this project more than surpassed it's goal I can assure you that neither member of development is rolling around in a pile of cash; this money isn't 100% in their bank accounts nor is it something readily available. From when I last spent time with them a year ago in Shanghai through as recent as yesterday these two guys have been burning the candle at both ends. You have to realize this is both a job and a very personal project for them both, they are pouring themselves into something to both create a dream provide a living. You do have a right to voice your opinion and I think it is a valid concern. If this was a year out from now with the status as it is now, warranted. It has barely been a month off target, be patient and remember good things come to those who wait (and not much longer mind you).

[veryalien]

I registered on this forum specifically to say I am disappointed thought with the direction this development is going. It exemplifies the whole problem with kickstarter.

I am in the same boat as you. I paid extra to get access to the beta, or even an early demo while they went away and added what needed to be added. Instead of giving us access they decided to add more milestones before beta.

Whats worse is that their language suddenly changed after the kickstarter closed. Look at the update after the project was funded. It went from being excited to immediately telling people there would be delays.

Yeah not funding anymore projects

[DukeofClubs]

TI don't see how you can say statements like "I figured that it was a safe bet being as it was already backed over 300% and getting more and more media." and then complain when they want to add "more and more media". I think the big problem here was your statement of "A reasonable person would assume beta is right around the corner" The assumption was wrong and now rather that just be wrong you seem more content on blaming the developers.

In regards to the media part, I didn't mean the media they produce. I meant the traction it is getting in the general media. It is an awesome game and nearly every gaming news source of worth has picked up on it.

I don't think that my assumption was wrong regarding beta. If you set a specific set of goals and set funding objectives for those goals and then receive 2005% of what you asked for..... is is assumable to say those goals will get accomplished.

I know it might sound harsh, I just don't want this to become a Star Command. I funded both projects and that one is going all of no where.

Great design and programming skills dont always equal great business knowledge. It should be kickstarters tagline.

[DukeofClubs]

Kickstarters allow you to donate to projects you think deserve a chance to see production. You are not an investor in the true (or any really) sense of the word. Think of it more like donating ... you give $20 to the ACS at a 5k; you can expect to get the t-shirt as a "thank you" but you dont get any imput on how the t-shirt looks (or what that $20 will go towards).

You are exactly right. We all enter on that premise. The issue is that this is a $200k donation. Sure if you break it up into our $25 shares it doesn't sound like that big of a deal, but $200k is a lot to just trust someone with.

The videos are great and lead me to believe things will likely be OK with the project, but they could 100% legally pack up shop anytime they wanted to and walk away with our $200k. These guys seem awesome and I know that wont happen, but projects do fail. Accountability to your investors/donators/backers limits failure and pleases your consumer base.

[DukeofClubs]

I am genuinely curious, why is a hard date so meaningful for you.

If they back out on a hard date it will piss off pretty much every single person that backed. It is why they don't do a hard date.

Patience isn't and issue for me. They could set the date May of next year and I would be fine with that if they provide regular updates. By picking a date they put reputation on the line. That makes all the difference in the world.

The fundamental problem with Kickstarter is this:

In theory "I am a dev making a game, want to make a donation and get cool stuff in exchange?"

In practice "I am a dev I want to make a game, want to give me a donation so I can actually do that?"

When you receive $200k in funding it isn't a homebrew title anymore. The people who generate those kinds of dollars should most defiantly be held accountable for it.

It doesn't look like this game will fail but a ton of others will. Look at the stuff on Star Command.... it is a joke of a project now.

[DukeofClubs]

I can understand the sense of disappointment or loss of enthusiasm, but overall this seems to be a bit much. How many times have games you pre-ordered from Gamestop or Amazon been pushed back or delayed? How many times have games with much larger development teams faced issues or moved release dates back?

I didn't fund those projects. It is apples and oranges.

I agree that getting upset over a triple A title being delayed is silly. You are a consumer hoping that they release a game so that you can buy it. If it never comes out you lose nothing other than the fact you don't get to buy something you wanted. If a dev fails to meet goals on a triple A title the company funding your project is going to potentially fire you for putting their investment in jeopardy. It has been career ending for people in the past.

In this case I was part of a group that gave FTL $200k to make the game. If it doesn't come out or gets delayed it puts my investment in jeopardy and I have 0 recourse.

It is all how you look at it. Legally we are gift giving donors. In practice we are investors.

They said it themselves. They are changing the project because of the amount of funding. That exemplifies and investment relationship.

You guys all made some really good points, but the crux of it all is what I just stated.

[DukeofClubs]

Whats worse is that their language suddenly changed after the kickstarter closed. Look at the update after the project was funded. It went from being excited to immediately telling people there would be delays.

Very true. Underpromise and over perform. Not the other way around.

The things they do show are awesome though.

[Warbird]

You make good points, but the delays are due to the project's success.

Choice A:

Project squeaks by in kickstarter and comes out in a playable state near the quality and content level near that of the demo. Few to no delays, beta comes out in May.

Choice B:

Project is immensely successful and due to this is set to have much more polish and content than that of the demo. Delays occur due to the addition of this content.

We're sitting at B, you wanted A.

Don't get me wrong, I feel where you are coming from. I'm somewhat disappointed that we aren't being given much insight into what's going on behind the scenes outside of the occasional video, but I can live with that. We just have to take them at their word and wait a while.