[MOD][WIP] FTL: Overdrive

Discuss and distribute tools and methods for modding. Moderator - Grognak
shark
Posts: 173
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:11 am

Re: [MOD][WIP] FTL: Overdrive

Postby shark » Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:46 pm

Is this a reverse-engineering project or you somehow got the source? Whats this about, can someone quickly fill me in?
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Sectus
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:21 am

Re: [MOD][WIP] FTL: Overdrive

Postby Sectus » Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:24 am

shark wrote:Is this a reverse-engineering project or you somehow got the source? Whats this about, can someone quickly fill me in?

I'm pretty sure it's a full rewrite of the game code with no reference to the original source code.
shark
Posts: 173
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:11 am

Re: [MOD][WIP] FTL: Overdrive

Postby shark » Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:06 pm

Sectus wrote:
shark wrote:Is this a reverse-engineering project or you somehow got the source? Whats this about, can someone quickly fill me in?

I'm pretty sure it's a full rewrite of the game code with no reference to the original source code.

Even though I love hearing about these kind of projects, they always break my heart....

I see three main issues with this:
- a rewrite of the game isn't a mod for the game. it will violate either the "derivative work" clause or it will hurt the IP owners and be a "copyright infringement". Especially if you make it *just* like FTL so that it even uses it's resources. This can get legally dangerous.
- development practice; one man can't do it, and the more people abroad the funkier the code gets; eventually it becomes a mess that needs maintenance - and as we developers know, it takes 20% of the time for 80% of functionality and 80% of the time for the other 20% functionality. And then there's polishing...
- and testing. Testing, testing testing. I've only seen a few (professionally-driven) community projects that had a dedicated QA team along with a bugtracker. without a thoroughly-tested product, people will reject it faster than blowjob from a $10 hooker. "It might not have all the bells and whistles but at least it works."

That is, of course, if the developer has the strength to carry the whole thing thru to the end.

My suggestion for the author(s) would be to go sign the NDA with Subset Games and the IP holders and ask them to release the source to you. This may or may not require a "professional face" (e.g. your company) to make such a request, but it usually works This is how great mods are achieved ;)
Roses are #FF0000
Violets are #0000FF
All of our mods
are belong to you.
hellcatv
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:52 pm

Re: [MOD][WIP] FTL: Overdrive

Postby hellcatv » Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:39 pm

Is Apache Open Office a derivative work of Microsoft word if it can read word files?
Is Google chrome a derivative work of Internet Explorer because it can render HTML files?
Is GIMP a derivative work of photoshop because it can read PSD files?

If the answer to these questions is no, then it should be obvious that something that can read FTL files is not a derivative work, nor a violation of copyright. Without the copyrighted datafiles, it's not as useful on its own, but people can make files from scratch in different universes with the same file format. Or it can be enhanced to read different file formats as well (like gimp can read XCF and Open Office can read ODS), like the lua scripts it can already read.

For a more specific look at a game that could read blizzard's exact files and enhanced ones, read up on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratagus

The net result of legal action from blizzard was limited to a name change (it used to be called FreeCraft)
curlsworth
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:38 pm

Re: [MOD][WIP] FTL: Overdrive

Postby curlsworth » Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:41 pm

Shark, take some time to read through the threads before jumping to your conclusions. The developers of FTL know about this project and are okay with it as long as it doesn't redistribute any files. This community was very vocal about its desire to mod and had to fight to get a mod section of the forums.

Grognak's mod manager and Overdrive were some of the first projects out there. When the Developers were uncomfortable, thomasfn offered repeatedly to close this project if they found it objectionable.

As far as legality goes, things are chill.

Otherwise, while your concern over the project achieving its goals is understandable, telling someone they are likely to fail doesn't help them accomplish their goals. If you want this to work out, which I bet you do considering your other posts on the forum, offer to help.

The developers of FTL are focused on promoting their game right now and potentially porting it to touch screen devices. Modability is not currently on their radar. If the community wants to be able to change things like max crew, which are currently hard coded, this is our best bet.

Also, typing on my phone is buggy for this forum so my last sentence here is gibberish. Enjoy. and they are n
Sectus
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:21 am

Re: [MOD][WIP] FTL: Overdrive

Postby Sectus » Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:33 pm

shark wrote:My suggestion for the author(s) would be to go sign the NDA with Subset Games and the IP holders and ask them to release the source to you. This may or may not require a "professional face" (e.g. your company) to make such a request, but it usually works This is how great mods are achieved ;)

I'm curious, can you list many projects where this actually happened? I can only think of 2 (Myth and Worms: Armageddon), and those were cases where the game was many years old and the developer has stopped supporting the game.

Anyway, I personally don't think there's any problems with this project as long as the FTL devs are okay with it. Hopefully they view it as flattering that people consider the game good enough that they wanna expand upon it so much. Of course, there's the risk that the project will never be finished, but that risk exists with any mod or fan project anyway.
John Luke Pack Hard
Posts: 112
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:45 am

Re: [MOD][WIP] FTL: Overdrive

Postby John Luke Pack Hard » Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:14 pm

Hello

I am a computer science student with experience in C++ and Java.

Where shall I get started?
shark
Posts: 173
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:11 am

Re: [MOD][WIP] FTL: Overdrive

Postby shark » Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:37 pm

Sectus wrote:
shark wrote:My suggestion for the author(s) would be to go sign the NDA with Subset Games and the IP holders and ask them to release the source to you. This may or may not require a "professional face" (e.g. your company) to make such a request, but it usually works This is how great mods are achieved ;)

I'm curious, can you list many projects where this actually happened? I can only think of 2 (Myth and Worms: Armageddon), and those were cases where the game was many years old and the developer has stopped supporting the game.

Anyway, I personally don't think there's any problems with this project as long as the FTL devs are okay with it. Hopefully they view it as flattering that people consider the game good enough that they wanna expand upon it so much. Of course, there's the risk that the project will never be finished, but that risk exists with any mod or fan project anyway.

Mechwarrior 4 Mercs, aka MW4Free. It's a free game now, give it a try. Jeho worked hard to deliver it.
HoMM3: WoG, Slava worked especially hard to put ERM language in it.
Warlords: Battlecry 3.
Kohan: Ahriman's Gift, where the modding community went and modded on for so long that after a while they started modding-out their own changes. Three times.

Then there's MW:Living Legends for Crysis, they asked and got the SDK *before* Crysis Wars even launched.

and so on really :) i'm the same shark on all of those.

I wanted the same to happen with Disciples 2, but I got insider info that the sourcecode was kinda lost. SFI had a rough time then and it didn't get any better for them since then. Which is a shame, SFI and Psygnosis made the best games ever. fine, Black Isle too.
Roses are #FF0000
Violets are #0000FF
All of our mods
are belong to you.
thomasfn
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:04 pm

Re: [MOD][WIP] FTL: Overdrive

Postby thomasfn » Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:32 am

John Luke Pack Hard wrote:Hello

I am a computer science student with experience in C++ and Java.

Where shall I get started?


C# should come easy to someone well versed in C++ and Java. Check out a few C# tutorials to get the grasp of it, and if you're feeling confident, have a browse through the source repository and see if you can understand it all!
John Luke Pack Hard
Posts: 112
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:45 am

Re: [MOD][WIP] FTL: Overdrive

Postby John Luke Pack Hard » Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:12 am

C# reads essentially like Java, with a few differences here and there (Indexers?).

On a side note, for flexibility, I would recommend deleting the boolean variable BypassShields in class ProjectileWeapon in Library.cs and place a new int ShieldPiercing.

As I recall, some modders wished to make certain lasers limited-piercing, while other modders wanted to make missle "shield blasters", so modifying the variables will give the weapon piercing a little more flexibility.

By the way, what is the reasoning behind making a subclass Projectile weapon which seems to have all the important variables?

Anyway, where do you need the extra coder?

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