Not having any issue with the store. I like how they are currently now.
In fact, most roguelike work like this and actually it is perfect, such as Tales of Maj'Eyah & Dungeon Of Dredmor.
Like how other poster said, the shop is to help player mitigate the random drop throughout the game.
End of the line, it is very fine in Roguelike nature. In addition, tons of players kill Final Boss DAILY as sport, what you shall do is get advice and guide from veteran player.
More useful stores?
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samseng813
- Posts: 37
- Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:00 am
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Agent_L
- Posts: 206
- Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:47 pm
Re: More useful stores?
LuniqueKero wrote:I'm not requesting to make the game easier, Its just that I quickly lost this feeling of control as soon as I understood how the game worked and realised that each game would completely dictate the outcome and that my actions were in some case quite irrelevant.
This is the point. It is YOU who has to adapt to the environment, not the opposite. (you know, just like The Real World™)
You ARE requesting the game to be easier, because you are requesting the game to provide you what you want.
I think you haven't realized yet, that you CAN stop the stores from offering you systems. It's easy, but costly - you just have to buy them all. It is a part of my strategy: I spend valuable scrap to buy out unneeded systems, just to make shops more useful in the future.
And you dare to request to remove that and say "I'm not requesting to make the game easier" at the same time?
CIA maps of Portugal Please God, don't let Portugal to go to war with USA!
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samseng813
- Posts: 37
- Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:00 am
Re: More useful stores?
"Just like Real Life" => Exactly what I am thinking too.
Our life are roguelike too. No employer are going to pay you nice if you never want improve/adapt/doing good.
Blatantly asking our boss to raise our salary (so we can have better life) without doing great performance is nonsense.
Want to win the game but don't want to put some skill & strategy & plan & learning?
Our life are roguelike too. No employer are going to pay you nice if you never want improve/adapt/doing good.
Blatantly asking our boss to raise our salary (so we can have better life) without doing great performance is nonsense.
Want to win the game but don't want to put some skill & strategy & plan & learning?
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Kestral B
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:42 pm
Re: More useful stores?
There are two changes that I would appreciate:
1.) That the freaking *federation HQ* that you arrive at in sector 8 would contain a store and not just give you 10 fuel. Seriously. Based on the game's story/world and the fact that the federation *has* a whole fleet and HQ, I would expect this to be a special extra-big store with lots more options and better prices than random Engi nomads or whoever you usually buy from. But any store at all is better than none. It makes *no sense* that their whole fleet cannot spare a single laser or even a drone part (you're even willing to pay them!) for the ship they are about to pin all their hopes on and send off alone to do battle to the death with the enemy's flagship.
Also: This would be especially nice because there are a good number of interesting and fun strategies that can work and allow you to make it to sector 8 (pacifist, anyone?), but that are not viable because they don't equip you to face the boss. A super-shop (or even a regular shop!) at the Federation HQ would allow you to use a greater variety of interesting tactics throughout the game before reaching the final showdown.
2.) I think it would be a *slight* improvement to combine weapons and drones into one category for the purpose of shopping (i.e. the way they are one category in your cargo hold). This way, it's not "all or nothing" for someone who wants a drone or a weapon. If the "drone/weapon" category shows up, then it may have 2 of one category and 1 of the other instead of all three the same. Heck, you could even combine that category with crew as well, and combine systems with sub-systems into one store-category and just have two categories (randomly pick a category for each of the stores 2 sections independently, so they may be the same. Make each one 60% chance of crew/drone/weapon and 40% chance of system/subsystem).
This would mean that store outcomes were just as random and restricted overall, but the curve of randomness is smoothed a bit by making it more likely you get at least one option from your desired category, instead of always either zero or 3.
In other words, the expected number of weapons seen over the course of the game is still the same, but they are likely to be found 1 or 2 at a time instead of always in sets of 3 - thus the chance any store has at least 1 weapon increases three-fold, but the chance of finding the weapon you want stays exactly the same.
Note: Far from diminishing the need for "adapting to what you're given" this mechanic would actually intensify it! i.e. Currently *if* you find 3 weapons one of them is likely to appeal to you - otherwise (more likely) you find no weapons and have no choice but to move on. But what if there were only one weapon for sale? Now you have a hard choice. Do you take it, because you need a weapon, and *adapt* your play style to make use of it? Or do you *choose* to move on in the hope of finding something that suits you later? You see that the temptation to adapt to a weapon outside you your normal style is stronger in the case where you find weapons in 1s or 2s rather than always in sets of 3.
Or consider the case where most of your crew has been lost and you need more crew. If you find three crew at a store, one of them is likely to be a race you like. Otherwise you find no crew, and must move on. But if you find only one crew in a store, he is more likely to be a race you don't usually use...and you are more likely to "adapt to what's available" than if crew only came in sets of 3.
1.) That the freaking *federation HQ* that you arrive at in sector 8 would contain a store and not just give you 10 fuel. Seriously. Based on the game's story/world and the fact that the federation *has* a whole fleet and HQ, I would expect this to be a special extra-big store with lots more options and better prices than random Engi nomads or whoever you usually buy from. But any store at all is better than none. It makes *no sense* that their whole fleet cannot spare a single laser or even a drone part (you're even willing to pay them!) for the ship they are about to pin all their hopes on and send off alone to do battle to the death with the enemy's flagship.
Also: This would be especially nice because there are a good number of interesting and fun strategies that can work and allow you to make it to sector 8 (pacifist, anyone?), but that are not viable because they don't equip you to face the boss. A super-shop (or even a regular shop!) at the Federation HQ would allow you to use a greater variety of interesting tactics throughout the game before reaching the final showdown.
2.) I think it would be a *slight* improvement to combine weapons and drones into one category for the purpose of shopping (i.e. the way they are one category in your cargo hold). This way, it's not "all or nothing" for someone who wants a drone or a weapon. If the "drone/weapon" category shows up, then it may have 2 of one category and 1 of the other instead of all three the same. Heck, you could even combine that category with crew as well, and combine systems with sub-systems into one store-category and just have two categories (randomly pick a category for each of the stores 2 sections independently, so they may be the same. Make each one 60% chance of crew/drone/weapon and 40% chance of system/subsystem).
This would mean that store outcomes were just as random and restricted overall, but the curve of randomness is smoothed a bit by making it more likely you get at least one option from your desired category, instead of always either zero or 3.
In other words, the expected number of weapons seen over the course of the game is still the same, but they are likely to be found 1 or 2 at a time instead of always in sets of 3 - thus the chance any store has at least 1 weapon increases three-fold, but the chance of finding the weapon you want stays exactly the same.
Note: Far from diminishing the need for "adapting to what you're given" this mechanic would actually intensify it! i.e. Currently *if* you find 3 weapons one of them is likely to appeal to you - otherwise (more likely) you find no weapons and have no choice but to move on. But what if there were only one weapon for sale? Now you have a hard choice. Do you take it, because you need a weapon, and *adapt* your play style to make use of it? Or do you *choose* to move on in the hope of finding something that suits you later? You see that the temptation to adapt to a weapon outside you your normal style is stronger in the case where you find weapons in 1s or 2s rather than always in sets of 3.
Or consider the case where most of your crew has been lost and you need more crew. If you find three crew at a store, one of them is likely to be a race you like. Otherwise you find no crew, and must move on. But if you find only one crew in a store, he is more likely to be a race you don't usually use...and you are more likely to "adapt to what's available" than if crew only came in sets of 3.
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LuniqueKero
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:07 am
Re: More useful stores?
The way the game is right now, the game plays you, not the other way around.
If I start a game with the mindset "hey, for a change, I feel like trying to asphyxiate the crews I encounter this time" or "Know what, lets board the damn thing and kill them all" I just can't. Like you guys said, I have to play the cards I am given all the time without having any control over it.
I repeat again, I am not asking to make the game easier, all I want is to at least feel like I can choose the way I want to approach a game instead of just having to follow whatever the game decides to push me.
As for Samseng, yeah hum, stfu. I have accumulated 17 hours of play so far, read countless posts, the wiki, tips, played the game through lots of various scenarios. The reason I complain is exactly BECAUSE I know how the game works and wish to have at least a mode where I can have more freedom.
If I start a game with the mindset "hey, for a change, I feel like trying to asphyxiate the crews I encounter this time" or "Know what, lets board the damn thing and kill them all" I just can't. Like you guys said, I have to play the cards I am given all the time without having any control over it.
I repeat again, I am not asking to make the game easier, all I want is to at least feel like I can choose the way I want to approach a game instead of just having to follow whatever the game decides to push me.
As for Samseng, yeah hum, stfu. I have accumulated 17 hours of play so far, read countless posts, the wiki, tips, played the game through lots of various scenarios. The reason I complain is exactly BECAUSE I know how the game works and wish to have at least a mode where I can have more freedom.
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Agent_L
- Posts: 206
- Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:47 pm
Re: More useful stores?
LuniqueKero wrote:[I] wish to have at least a mode where I can have more freedom.
Savescumm before visiting a shop for the first time, and keep rerolling it until it sells exactly what you want.
CIA maps of Portugal Please God, don't let Portugal to go to war with USA!
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Cactuschef
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:05 am
Re: More useful stores?
I think the lumping together of crew, drones, and weapons into an additional category would actually be a decent change. not that you'd be guaranteed one of each, just that it'd be possible to show up at a shop and have 3 different things (or 2 and 1). it would make the game easier, but only marginally, and mainly be reducing the instance of complete 'fuck you' runs, where you find nothing but drones, no recovery arm, and no weapons, things like that. it wouldn't make the average run particularly easier, just more interesting.