Suggestion: Sometimes beam pierce shields

General discussion about the game.
Lucid
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:07 pm

Suggestion: Sometimes beam pierce shields

Postby Lucid » Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:32 pm

In general, I like the way shields work. However, I've noticed that sometimes they make a strong ship mostly or completely immune to a weaker ship. I notice this in sector 1, where sometimes the enemies literally can't hurt me (my shields recharge faster than their weapons do). I notice this in later sectors, where I sometimes literally can't scratch a ship with three shields with my beams.

I think both of these situations are bad; a fight with literally no risk isn't exciting (and doesn't demand skill or thought). A fight where my beam weapons are literally useless is frustrating--I'd rather keep firing and know I have a small chance to actually get through.

To address this, I suggest adding a bit of randomness here; a 10-20% chance that any beam shot bypasses a given box of shields. Having more shield boxes reduces the chance, as does manning the shield system. On the defensive, this means that even an easy fight can result in a point or two of hull damage. On the offensive, it means that enemies are never unbeatable (just very hard).
Lambchops
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 8:26 pm

Re: Suggestion: Sometimes beam pierce shields

Postby Lambchops » Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:51 pm

I virtually never pick up beam weapons for this reason. The pike beam, for example, seems ineffective compared to the starting laser. It takes one more energy bar, takes a little longer to charge, requires you to soften up shields to be of any use whatsoever meaning that if you are low on missiles it is nigh on useless. It does tend to supplement the other weapons well if you have reactors and weapons upgraded a reasonable amount but doesn't seem much of a viable option on its own.
VladePsyker
Posts: 100
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:18 pm

Re: Suggestion: Sometimes beam pierce shields

Postby VladePsyker » Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:00 pm

The Halberd Beam does 2dmg per room. if it hits a ship with 1 shield its does 1 dmg per room which even then sucks against 3,4 and 5 shield oppoents unless your got two or more other weapons that reliably crack shields and then its ownz.

Maybe beams could have an ability "if beam only strikes 1 room, does double dmg" so a halberd only striking 1 room does 4 dmg and can do 1 dmg on a room with 3 shield
DeltaOmega
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:46 am

Re: Suggestion: Sometimes beam pierce shields

Postby DeltaOmega » Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:21 am

VladePsyker wrote:The Halberd Beam does 2dmg per room. if it hits a ship with 1 shield its does 1 dmg per room which even then sucks against 3,4 and 5 shield oppoents unless your got two or more other weapons that reliably crack shields and then its ownz.

Maybe beams could have an ability "if beam only strikes 1 room, does double dmg" so a halberd only striking 1 room does 4 dmg and can do 1 dmg on a room with 3 shield


Halbred beams seem to be sick since you can hit 4-5 rooms on some ships. Even with a single shield, you can damage alot of systems. The pike beam would be nice but it's cooldown and power consumption is atrocious for something that can't penetrate single shields. Beams do start to shine when used with reliable shield-piercing/disabling weapons and is much more useful when you have good cloak and the augment that charges all your weapons on entry.
Justin
Site Admin
Posts: 265
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:52 am

Re: Suggestion: Sometimes beam pierce shields

Postby Justin » Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:23 am

Beam weapons are a bit hard to balance it's true.

If you have ion or lasers to get through their shields, the pike beam could do 6 damage in one shot (which feels OP). But if you cant get through their shields it does 0 (which feels underpowered).

Maybe it means that most people always stick to lasers (even Matt prefers this), but... I kinda feel like beams are super useful if used correctly. And I'm scared to buff them because it means that they're even MORE useful to people who use them correctly. Maybe there's a way to make it have less of a skill cap.

Shield piercing isn't a bad idea but we are trying to avoid random damage modifiers (like crits or this extra piercing). It doesn't fit into the super transparent/calculating nature of the game that we like so much. Maybe there can be an augment that just gives +1 shield piercing for all beam weapons. (that would be scary!)
If you're having hull problems, I feel bad for you son. I've got 99 problems but a breach ain't one.
VladePsyker
Posts: 100
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:18 pm

Re: Suggestion: Sometimes beam pierce shields

Postby VladePsyker » Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:19 am

Justin wrote:Beam weapons are a bit hard to balance it's true.

If you have ion or lasers to get through their shields, the pike beam could do 6 damage in one shot (which feels OP). But if you cant get through their shields it does 0 (which feels underpowered).

Maybe it means that most people always stick to lasers (even Matt prefers this), but... I kinda feel like beams are super useful if used correctly. And I'm scared to buff them because it means that they're even MORE useful to people who use them correctly. Maybe there's a way to make it have less of a skill cap.

Shield piercing isn't a bad idea but we are trying to avoid random damage modifiers (like crits or this extra piercing). It doesn't fit into the super transparent/calculating nature of the game that we like so much. Maybe there can be an augment that just gives +1 shield piercing for all beam weapons. (that would be scary!)


Maybe you could look at the energy to power I mean the pike beam at 3 energy is just not worth it, even the halberd at 3 energy is a little expensive resource wise to implement against ships with high shields.

I don't know how it would play with your code but is it possible to have it so that you can vary the amount of energy you put in the beam ? for example put 2 energy into the 3 energy halberd beam and the beam length is only 2/3rds as long ?
x_dirtrobot
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:43 am

Re: Suggestion: Sometimes beam pierce shields

Postby x_dirtrobot » Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:24 am

Justin wrote:Beam weapons are a bit hard to balance it's true.

If you have ion or lasers to get through their shields, the pike beam could do 6 damage in one shot (which feels OP). But if you cant get through their shields it does 0 (which feels underpowered).

Maybe it means that most people always stick to lasers (even Matt prefers this), but... I kinda feel like beams are super useful if used correctly. And I'm scared to buff them because it means that they're even MORE useful to people who use them correctly. Maybe there's a way to make it have less of a skill cap.

Shield piercing isn't a bad idea but we are trying to avoid random damage modifiers (like crits or this extra piercing). It doesn't fit into the super transparent/calculating nature of the game that we like so much. Maybe there can be an augment that just gives +1 shield piercing for all beam weapons. (that would be scary!)


What's wrong with trying things out in beta? :twisted:
TenLetters
Posts: 68
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:18 am

Re: Suggestion: Sometimes beam pierce shields

Postby TenLetters » Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:26 am

I think beams are great. Even the small mini-beam that the Stealth ship starts with can do 4 damage to lots of ships when the beam is placed correctly (against some ships it's impossible, and you can only do 3 damage). That's insane for a starting weapon, especially when it only costs 1 power.

I think beams are fine, since it just forces you to complement them. They do insane damage as long as you can get through shields. If you have some kind of ion or missile weapon to disable the shield, having even a small beam weapon is enough to destroy ships in two or three volleys.
Syphus
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:37 pm

Re: Suggestion: Sometimes beam pierce shields

Postby Syphus » Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:29 am

Justin wrote: Maybe there can be an augment that just gives +1 shield piercing for all beam weapons. (that would be scary!)


This is my favorite idea so far. I think augments are a pretty good place to put some of the crazy things. If something is rare and then requires something else, the fact that it might be overpowered isn't such a big deal. In fact the whole idea that you might get lucky enough and find a combination of weapons + augments that make you until a killing machine for one game sounds exciting. Then it just sucks twice as much when you die from a rogue fire in a solar flare.
Lestibournes
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:02 pm

Re: Suggestion: Sometimes beam pierce shields

Postby Lestibournes » Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:53 am

I haven't played the beta, but from the discussion here I'd say that I think it's a good idea to design the game to be interesting and engaging for all skill levels. That would mean that certain things should be left for expert players to figure out how to correctly utilize.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests