Beta Release Discussion

[DukeofClubs]

If you want to feel better, look at it this way: some of us missed the kickstarter. Regardless of when they release the game (beta, whatever), you'll be playing it months before me.

This is a fantastic point CEO. If Kickstarter accepted that it is a mirco financing site in practice and not a gift giving service, people would be able to buy and sell shares at market value. It would allow the market to create accountability. If a project fizzles people sell their shares at a lesser price and less capital is available. If a project heats up additional capital is generated accordingly.

Micro financing / philanthropic site Kiva operates this way. It is simpler for kickstarter to just cash being a 1 to 1 middle man though.

[DukeofClubs]

Don't get me wrong, I feel where you are coming from. I'm somewhat disappointed that we aren't being given much insight into what's going on behind the scenes outside of the occasional video, but I can live with that. We just have to take them at their word and wait a while.

As usual, awesome point Warbird. I am fine with waiting, I just want them to put a date on it and own it.

A long term date is completely acceptable as long as they meet it. I truly would wait for a whole year as long as they posted hard goals and prove that they meet them.

Taking $200k and saying it will be out when it is out isn't really my cup of tea

[Qhesz]

Several people have tried to make this point: A surprise injection of $190K opens up a lot of possibilities that had been written off beforehand. All these possibilities (features, content etc) require a complete shake-up of how development continues. While the devs figure out how to juggle these opportunities, estimated release dates will change. Goals set previously don't take these unexpected things into account, so it is likely that they won't hold true.

I genuinely believe that they haven't given a hard date because they don't know, not because they're trying to lead us all on.

Duke, I think I understand now that you are looking for some sort of assurance that the money is actually going to the game development, and that the game will actually be produced. I don't think a hard date is going to do that for you. I think regular updates and continued communication from the devs will do that, and is quite a reasonable thing to ask for.

Alternatively, you could assume your money has disappeared, write it off completely, and be pleasantly surprised when the beta comes out. Probably a healthier way to view kickstarters, under-promise to yourself, and be happy when devs overperform. Because Kickstarter is not a financing site, it is a donation service where you aren't guaranteed to get what was promised. There is no legal accountability around Kickstarters, and there's a potential avenue for abuse that you need to be wary of.
But with such a high-profile kickstarter as FTL, I think there is a lot of implicit, social accountability. If the game fails to come out, a lot of people will notice, the gaming press will notice, and Justin and Matthew will be named and shamed. They cannot walk away from this scott free.

[Muramas]

What is annoying for me is that I missed the demo so I have yet to even -try- the game. I don't see any reason why they can't release a beta in its current form because it seems quite playable in the game-play videos.

I am fine with testing something for bugs and not being feature complete as long as that is what they are advertising (they release it as a alpha / beta and not a prerelease),

[Warbird]

I think regular updates and continued communication from the devs will do that, and is quite a reasonable thing to ask for.

This, this. One Million times this! I've been asking for that for a while now.

[veryalien]

Because Kickstarter is not a financing site, it is a donation service where you aren't guaranteed to get what was promised. There is no legal accountability around Kickstarters, and there's a potential avenue for abuse that you need to be wary of.

This isn't true.

From the kickstarter website (help section):

"Kickstarter is a new way to fund creative projects."

"Accountability

Who is responsible for fulfilling the promises of a project?

It is the responsibility of the project creator to fulfill the promises of their project."

"If you realize that you will be unable to follow through on your project before funding has ended, you are expected to cancel it. If you realize that you will be unable to follow through on your project after it has been successfully funded, you are expected to offer refunds to all your backers."

It's not a donation site. Project creators are held accountable.

http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/creators#Acco

[Qhesz]

veryalien, yes kickstarter is a way to get funding, donating falls under that umbrella. What I get from reading those quotes you posted is that Kickstarter will never be held responsible for the fulfillment of promises. From the same page: "Kickstarter does not investigate a creator's ability to complete their project." It's Kickstarter abolving itself of responsibility.

Just because the kickstarter FAQ says creators are "expected" to do something does not mean they are legally bound to do so. If you could find any sort of stronger wording in a properly binding agreement that creators or backers agree to (I assume there is one, that you have to agree to to back something), then I will be convinced.
Ah hah, found it: http://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use?ref=footer Haven't read it yet.

Also from the page you quoted: "there are powerful social forces that keep creators accountable."
Kickstarter is trying to assure backers that there is accountability, and this is the strongest they can come up with. Reading between the lines, there is no legal accountability.

And another: "If someone has no demonstrable prior history of doing something like their project, or is unwilling to share information, backers should consider that when weighing a pledge. If something sounds too good to be true, it very well may be."
Kickstarter says: Be wary with your pledges, what is promised to you may not be possible.

I will go read those terms of use though, and I'll get back to you. If there is proper accountability in them, I'll eat my words.

[veryalien]

Kickstarter is trying to assure backers that there is accountability, and this is the strongest they can come up with. Reading between the lines, there is no legal accountability.

Why are you so desperate to play devil's advocate? It's almost pathological with you.

[Justin]

Yo guys, one of the dev's here.

We were a good 3/4 done with the project when we asked for a bit of money to get us through to the end. Getting 2000% of our goal has a much different effect than if we were pitching a new idea that wasn't in production yet. It takes time to find (and enact) productive ways to spend the money on the game (contractors, better libraries, etc) as well additional time for press and business management. It's a split opinion amongst our backers on how the money would effect us: Some have expected massive delays so we could improve the game tenfold; while others (like DukeofClubs) feel that the money should guarantee a timely release. We've opted to do our best to pull off both at once. We're working seven days a week to get FTL to you both improved beyond our initial expectations, and as close to on time as possible.

That being said, we hope to get you the Beta within the next 2-3 weeks. There are still a few things which will take an uncertain amount of time, so we'd prefer not to just guess and give a date that could lead to further disappointment.

In the mean time, I will try and take part in discussions more. We were recently just hiding in our respective caves trying to work as fast as possible with few distractions. So, sorry if we were absent.

We'd like to thank all of you once again for your support. Tons of great ideas have been tossed around as well. Some of which are frankly incompatible with FTL but would still make an awesome game that I'd love to play. But overall, this forum has been remarkable in the civility of its users and the enthusiasm for FTL.

[Warbird]

Thanks for the update!