They've now made the game too hard

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Twinge
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Re: They've now made the game too hard

Postby Twinge » Fri May 16, 2014 2:53 pm

Elhazzared wrote:Many times, probably half the sectors in average, I have to jump out after some 7 or 8 jumps instead of the normal 10 or 11 because it's the only path available to the beacon...


If you're averaging less than 10 beacons per sector, that's entirely on your own poor planning. The occasional terrible sector layout will mean you only get 9 hops instead of 10-11; 7 is right out.

Instead of blaming the game and dismissing what everyone is saying, consider that perhaps you are mistaken in your beliefs; your claims are demonstrably false. Stop blaming the game and focus on your own mistakes and how you can improve your play - that's how one learns and improves.
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Elhazzared
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Re: They've now made the game too hard

Postby Elhazzared » Fri May 16, 2014 3:46 pm

I don't really care if you belive me or not. Bad sectors to me are worth 7 to 8 jumps, I just can hop around anywhere, it's mostly a straight path to the end that i end up being presented with. it's not bad planning, it's the lack of alternative as going anywhere else would mean then having to come back through several sectors of enemy fleet.

This doesn't means that all are like that. Like I said, I average about half of it being worth 7 to 8 jump and the other half to be worth 10 to 11 when the seeding is normal and doesn't screws me over. This means that I average some 9 beacons per sector overall. So I expect some 63 beacons explored up to the end of sector 7, maybe a little bit more if I steer through nebulas though nebulas tend to have more empty beacons too so, even gaining a little extra there, not really a significant gain due to too many empty beacons.
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shadowcrust
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Re: They've now made the game too hard

Postby shadowcrust » Fri May 16, 2014 4:05 pm

Elhazzared wrote:So I expect some 63 beacons explored up to the end of sector 7


That's way, way too low. Care to post some sector layout screenshots of your next run?
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Re: They've now made the game too hard

Postby 5thHorseman » Fri May 16, 2014 4:28 pm

Elhazzared wrote:I don't really care if you belive me or not. Bad sectors to me are worth 7 to 8 jumps, I just can hop around anywhere, it's mostly a straight path to the end that i end up being presented with. it's not bad planning, it's the lack of alternative as going anywhere else would mean then having to come back through several sectors of enemy fleet.


You offered in another thread to post a video proving your point. I ask you to do the same here. Start playing. Start recording. Go to Sector 1 and show the map and mouse from star to star showing which way you'd go. I'll do the same. To eliminate the chance of one good sector for one of us and a bad one for the other, restart 10 times to regenerate 10 different first sectors.

If we're crazy different, try modifying your search strategy to match mine. If they seem similar, we can repeat this by actually filming our way through sector 1. Note I've already done this about a half dozen times and you can already see my path through not just sector 1, but the subsequent sectors.
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project_mercy
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Re: They've now made the game too hard

Postby project_mercy » Fri May 16, 2014 4:56 pm

Twinge wrote:If you're averaging less than 10 beacons per sector, that's entirely on your own poor planning. The occasional terrible sector layout will mean you only get 9 hops instead of 10-11; 7 is right out.


This is technically not true. I'm not agreeing with Elhazzared in any way, but I've hit sectors where basically the incoming node is in a long single-file line, and the outgoing node is in a long single-file line, and in between is off in a totally different section of the sector. You may get more than 7 jumps in, but it's not 7 NOVEL jumps, due to backtracking.

Combined with the fact there are always a few empty nodes, and some events are also basically empty, you can have sectors now where it's basically just a fuel tax. It would be the same to just jump 2 sectors and tax you 10 fuel. This is an AE issue, as it doesn't happen in Classic.

I'm not complaining about it, it's just how the game rolls; but he's not wrong on that part.
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Re: They've now made the game too hard

Postby 5thHorseman » Sat May 17, 2014 1:06 am

project_mercy wrote:
Twinge wrote:If you're averaging less than 10 beacons per sector, that's entirely on your own poor planning. The occasional terrible sector layout will mean you only get 9 hops instead of 10-11; 7 is right out.


This is technically not true. I'm not agreeing with Elhazzared in any way, but I've hit sectors where basically the incoming node is in a long single-file line, and the outgoing node is in a long single-file line, and in between is off in a totally different section of the sector. You may get more than 7 jumps in, but it's not 7 NOVEL jumps, due to backtracking.


Anecdote is not the singular form of data. Finding a sector with 7 jumps on occasion does not mean the average number of jumps per sector is not 10-11.
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project_mercy
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Re: They've now made the game too hard

Postby project_mercy » Sat May 17, 2014 7:13 am

5thHorseman wrote:Anecdote is not the singular form of data. Finding a sector with 7 jumps on occasion does not mean the average number of jumps per sector is not 10-11.


The first sentence of his statement says "on average." The second one does not.

Yes, on average you should get around 11-12 jumps. That isn't to say that's always the case though. There ARE (very rarely) sectors that it's impossible to do this. So "7 is right out" is not correct. It is possible, and I have seen it. It's just pretty rare. Which isn't to say it can't be 7 useful jumps, as opposed to 12 totally useless nodes full of nothing. It's random, that's the replayability.
Elhazzared
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Re: They've now made the game too hard

Postby Elhazzared » Sat May 17, 2014 3:30 pm

5thHorseman wrote:
Elhazzared wrote:I don't really care if you belive me or not. Bad sectors to me are worth 7 to 8 jumps, I just can hop around anywhere, it's mostly a straight path to the end that i end up being presented with. it's not bad planning, it's the lack of alternative as going anywhere else would mean then having to come back through several sectors of enemy fleet.


You offered in another thread to post a video proving your point. I ask you to do the same here. Start playing. Start recording. Go to Sector 1 and show the map and mouse from star to star showing which way you'd go. I'll do the same. To eliminate the chance of one good sector for one of us and a bad one for the other, restart 10 times to regenerate 10 different first sectors.

If we're crazy different, try modifying your search strategy to match mine. If they seem similar, we can repeat this by actually filming our way through sector 1. Note I've already done this about a half dozen times and you can already see my path through not just sector 1, but the subsequent sectors.


I can't record that much. For the most part there is a lot of noise going on in my house so I rarely get the time. Most of the times I can record very late at nght but then it's me who can't do noise cause everyone's asleep lol.

So i've been waiting on an opportunity to record on the other. As for this one. I can try but not on the same way as you sugested. The first sector seems to be the one that rarely has bad seeding. I've seen a case or two here but usually the sector is pretty normal. It's after the first sector that seeding becomes completly screwed. I could of course get a few screenshots of screwed sectors but it would hardly serve as evidence that I get bad seeding on about 50% of the times. For that I'd need a really long session of recording or several in order to give enought proof that it do is that bad!

With the recording difficulties I have that would become impossible. In fact I was trying to make my youtube channel and had to abandon the project because I simply don't have the conditions to record. They were a bit better when I started if not ideal but it turned for the worse some months ago.
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Dirka
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Re: They've now made the game too hard

Postby Dirka » Sun May 18, 2014 5:33 pm

Elhazzared wrote:I can't record that much. For the most part there is a lot of noise going on in my house so I rarely get the time. Most of the times I can record very late at nght but then it's me who can't do noise cause everyone's asleep lol-

Why not just mute the sound?
Elhazzared
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Re: They've now made the game too hard

Postby Elhazzared » Mon May 19, 2014 9:17 am

I wouldn't upload something that fundamentaly bad to my youtube channel.
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The stars cried out
And under the ashes of infinity
Hope, scarred and bleeding breathed it's last."

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