List of things people don't like [From Reddit thread]

General discussion about the game.
NoHeDoesnt
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:20 pm

Re: List of things people don't like [From Reddit thread]

Postby NoHeDoesnt » Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:19 am

I don;t see why you would confuse the players thinking they have ownership and feeling entitled with a developer being smart and listening to the base that purchased his or her product to retain the fan base and possibly grow more fans by listening to the suggestions of long time players of the type of game the developer put out.


Velz you are assuming that the developer is only interested in a) growing their fan base and b) making more money. Games developers mostly make games that they want to play, which they think would be fun to make, or fits their artistic vision, whatever that is. Yes, sometimes they will hear an opinion and think its a great idea and include it. Demanding they do so is bound to have the opposite effect of what you are trying to manipulate out of them.
velz
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:25 pm

Re: List of things people don't like [From Reddit thread]

Postby velz » Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:53 am

NoHeDoesnt wrote:
I don;t see why you would confuse the players thinking they have ownership and feeling entitled with a developer being smart and listening to the base that purchased his or her product to retain the fan base and possibly grow more fans by listening to the suggestions of long time players of the type of game the developer put out.


Velz you are assuming that the developer is only interested in a) growing their fan base and b) making more money. Games developers mostly make games that they want to play, which they think would be fun to make, or fits their artistic vision, whatever that is. Yes, sometimes they will hear an opinion and think its a great idea and include it. Demanding they do so is bound to have the opposite effect of what you are trying to manipulate out of them.


Minecraft.
darthkiwi
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:40 pm

Re: List of things people don't like [From Reddit thread]

Postby darthkiwi » Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:15 am

NoHeDoesn't: I totally agree. The dev's don't "have" to do anything. Sometimes listening to complaints can lead to a better game; sometimes it just leads to a watered-down game with none of its original flair.

Having said that, I do think that the devs should at least listen to these suggestions. After all, if lots of people are making them then there might be something in them.

Personally I like the randomness of which weapons you pick up. I like knowing that I need some kind of weapon and saving up for it, and then seeing what turns up at the next store. I might get something I never expected, and have to alter my build around that, and that's part of the fun. Today I discovered, by chance, an entirely new weapons build, but the only problem was that it took so long to charge weapons that I might never get a shot off. The problem was solved when I managed to pick up a cloaking device, which allowed me to stay hidden while they charged. The randomness forced me to accommodate certain weapons that I wouldn't otherwise have used, and I then had to compensate.

But, it's evidently possible that I might never have found those (or indeed any) weapons, and might never have found that cloaking device. And that would have really screwed me over. So perhaps the randomness is a little too overpowering.

The difficulty does also seem a little unforgiving. There's a definite sense of being either behind of or ahead of the difficulty curve; the problem is that if you're ahead of the curve, you'll take less damage so will be able to pull further and further ahead of it. If you're behind the curve, you'll take more damage to more systems and lose more crewmembers and use up all your stores, which makes it more and more difficult to get back ahead of the curve.

And, like everyone else says, it would be a real joy to play with the same ship for days or weeks on end. I'm not sure it would be the same game then, of course, but I would definitely be interested in seeing which game it would become.

I absolutely love this game, definitely one of my games of the year so far, but perhaps there's an even better one lurking just beneath the surface?
Wordsmith
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:34 pm
Location: Medbay

Re: List of things people don't like [From Reddit thread]

Postby Wordsmith » Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:39 am

NoHeDoesnt wrote:Velz you are assuming that the developer is only interested in a) growing their fan base and b) making more money. Games developers mostly make games that they want to play, which they think would be fun to make, or fits their artistic vision, whatever that is.


What you're forgetting is the purpose of making games: making money.

You can go on and on about "artistic vision" all you want, but if you refuse to change things that people see as problems, then you're severely limiting your market. Changing the core principles of the game isn't necessary. What people are talking about here is minor tweaks to the random number system of the game, making certain things more likely or less likely to occur in order to make the game less luck-based. It's not "destroying an artistic vision". It's balancing.

On the subject of "infinite mode", the devs have already said this was part of their original vision of the game, and they'd love to include it in future content. They just couldn't get it in the release version.
"Sometimes it is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness."
- Terry Pratchett
beef42
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:39 am

Re: List of things people don't like [From Reddit thread]

Postby beef42 » Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:53 am

Wordsmith wrote:
NoHeDoesnt wrote:Velz you are assuming that the developer is only interested in a) growing their fan base and b) making more money. Games developers mostly make games that they want to play, which they think would be fun to make, or fits their artistic vision, whatever that is.


What you're forgetting is the purpose of making games: making money.

You can go on and on about "artistic vision" all you want, but if you refuse to change things that people see as problems, then you're severely limiting your market. Changing the core principles of the game isn't necessary. What people are talking about here is minor tweaks to the random number system of the game, making certain things more likely or less likely to occur in order to make the game less luck-based. It's not "destroying an artistic vision". It's balancing.


Honestly, I don't think very many people get into indie game developing for the FAT STACKS OF CASH. As far as I understand they had a succesful kickstarter which presumably was what they needed to get bread on the table while they were making the game. Now it's released and we bought the product as it is for ten bucks. They don't owe us anything.

You're acting like this is some sixty dollar triple-A title with multiplayer servers and an esports scene. Dude, it's just 2 guys making a game, and trying to make a living from it.
Brunopolis
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:11 pm

Re: List of things people don't like [From Reddit thread]

Postby Brunopolis » Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:58 am

Personally, I think the game is more or less fine from an overall design perspective. It really just needs more varied events, some additional customization options, and unlockable events/items when you beat the game that change the experience like in Binding of Isaac.

For example, controllable away missions would really add some variety into the game. Say a research station is about is about to explode and you need to get the scientists out. You actually beam/shuttle your crew on to the station and have to walk around finding the scientists against the timer. This would play out similar to being on an enemy ship except it's much larger with a scrolling screen. Maybe even make it so that your ship might even get attacked/boarded while your away team is searching the cave, research station, derelict vessel, etc. This leads to more interesting situations.

Additional customization options would mainly be crew gear. Perhaps weapons(laser/plasma guns, rifles, etc), defense(personal shielding, Tritanium armor, etc), use-able items(plasma grenades, emp bombs, combat drugs, etc), and various other such items. This would make the away missions more exciting and easier to plan for since you'd send the appropriately geared crew for the mission.

I just threw out a random example but basically I'm trying to say that the game designers have a good game that simply needs more "meat" and doesn't really need an overhaul on anything. It has the potential to become Dungeon of Dredmor and Binding of Isaac good. It's just a little light on the content and simply needs more. Hopefully, with some time this game will go from good to awesome.
PirateCat
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:45 am

Re: List of things people don't like [From Reddit thread]

Postby PirateCat » Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:52 am

Uniform764 wrote:It's not that complete runs are rare, its that incomplete runs seem to be far to arbitrary, eg "you hit this sector and now you penetrate none of their shields, you lose"


This describes one of my biggest complaints about the game. I love the game, love roguelikes, and expect to die more often than even coming close to winning. However, I expect it to be a grinding down type thing, not smashing enemies left and right, getting past with good tactical control, until BAM instantly enemies that are so much more powerful than I can fight simply because the game is stingy with the good weapons.

Brunopolis wrote: *big wall of text I completely agree with*


Another thing I'd like would be the ability to hack enemy systems like they randomly do to me. It would also help with the above problem, also.
Michael
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:46 am

Re: List of things people don't like [From Reddit thread]

Postby Michael » Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:08 am

I felt like I needed to register just to post in this thread. First, this is one of the most poorly worded, yet coherent arguments I've ever read. Don't use Capitalism as an excuse for change. Capitalism is ruining creativity and innovation. If everyone followed your thinking, then every game would be Halo or CoD because they make the most money.

That being said, I would like to see a game as the Reddit comments describe. It would, however, have cost much more money and have taken a lot more time to create an infinite universe with more items and customization. For me, the major issue is that it's more like a mini game, and after I've unlocked everything, I'll likely be finished. However, on that same note, that's probably a positive for other players.

Rather than complaining about the current state of FTL, I'd suggest that proposing a new game idea would be more advantages. Maybe their next game could be more deep and customizable? Maybe another group could run with the idea? I'm sure a lot of people that play FTL would love to play both games, and as we've seen, there is certainly still an interest in space adventures.
jambonessy
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:03 pm

Re: List of things people don't like [From Reddit thread]

Postby jambonessy » Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:27 am

it's amazing how much some people hate constructive criticism
curithwin
Posts: 151
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 12:42 pm

Re: List of things people don't like [From Reddit thread]

Postby curithwin » Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:59 am

I have to speak up a little about this game. I love it all and how it stands, at present, with me rates a 9.5 out of 10.

I like how it is a short play game, even with quit saves the game plays enough for a father of two to do without having to write down.. what I need to do next time I play this is a week!

The randomness adds to the character of the game. I have had games where I saw no weapon shops at all, only augments and drones. So I changed tactic and ran from battles till I got the drones and augments I needed to get further.. and I even got the last boss down to 3 health before being defected.

As to the comment -Someone in the thread mentioned how one of the devs doesn't seem to really care much about what people say should be changed in the game, and seems to be giving off the "Hey it's a roguelike, your opinions dont matter much because it doesnt fit with our vision of the game".

That seems badly paraphrased and the fact is the game dev's are making a game not just for US, but for themselves as well. So they have to stay true to the Game Design Document or feature creep would have killed FTL a long time ago, even with the backing it got. I am happy it was released as is. I would love to see that FTL 2 could be like, but we'll have to see on that one.

Constructive criticism is great, but on the internet you seldom get that as context seldom gets transferred in the writing of a topic or blog. People tend to read things on the negative side before seeing the positive. So please take that into context when reading this post.

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