Initial reactions: balance issues

General discussion about the game.
darthrevan4ever
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:55 pm

Re: Initial reactions: balance issues

Postby darthrevan4ever » Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:05 pm

This game isn't un-balenced its rouge-like meaning that everything is random and that's the fun part. :D I mean i totally get my aft handed to me on just about every game i play but the more i play the better you can get. And yes sometimes a run will just screw you over but again its rougelike
garethmagis
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:59 pm

Re: Initial reactions: balance issues

Postby garethmagis » Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:26 pm

I think that some people don't understand what kickstarter is for. Kickstarter is not a preorder site, it is only a site for supporting developers or content creators or whatever it is that you feel like backing. No where do they claim that the game will be 10 dollars, what they are saying is that you are giving them 10 dollars to back a project that you believe in. If you don't believe in the project or want to support it simply don't back it. You literally have no legitimate complaint unless you consider ignorance a good excuse. Obviously the vast majority of backers understood this and that is why there are only a few topics complaining about a 2 dollar price difference. If you are going to use sites like kickstarter, please understand what it is that you are pledging money to.

And everything that you are claiming is a balance issue are mostly just staples of roguelikes, if there was no randomization than every play would be the same and there would be no replayability. For most of us that is what keeps us coming back for more.
ruskyandrei
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:30 pm

Re: Initial reactions: balance issues

Postby ruskyandrei » Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:40 pm

The OP makes me cringe.

First of all, KS is, as already well stated, not a cheaper pre-order site. It's a way for you to support the creation of a game. You are in effect making a donation, for which you will receive something eventually. Being entitled about it is quite despicable in my honest opinion.

Regarding the game's difficulty and it being fair or not, all I have to say is, please don't try to make this game into yet another "fair" bullshit game.
Life isn't fair, games shouldn't be "fair". If you don't understand the genre, take a moment to read up on it and see what makes it tick. Suffice it to say, it is not a genre that relies on everything being "fair", and you are expected to be able to overcome "unfair" situations. It's part of the game.

The game isn't that difficult, and while luck can either see you lose after the first jump or win easily, this is all mean to be part of the game.
Most "modern" games have done a huge disservice to the gaming community by teaching gamers that games need to be "fair" and that it is normal for a game to tell you absolutely everything in a very clear format as soon as possible.
Exploration, both in the game as well as of the game, is a vital part of this game and genre. By having all choices be "fair", by having the game show you a big "If you send your crew to fight the spiders there's a 65.4% chance that one will die" message, you are effectively killing a part of the game.
jambonessy
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:03 pm

Re: Initial reactions: balance issues

Postby jambonessy » Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:15 pm

This game has too wide a window of luck as far as I can see, to the point where quite often no amount of ability/knowledge of the game will give you a certain (or even likely) completion on any specific playthrough.

I have played nethack on and off since 1999, so don't need people lecturing me about what they think a roguelike is supposed to be.

Nethack has VASTLY more RNG calculations than this game, and even the fastest recorded ascension in that game is still going to be longer than any completion would take you in this game, and yet with all that randomness I believe an experienced player would have a much better chance of a nethack ascension than a completion in this game within a single attempt.

Sometimes you just don't get lucky enough, are deep in the game without a sufficient damge output or despite playing safe are sometimes punished in ways that are not recoverable from over the next 5 turns.

There is a difference between some runs being easier than others, and a game being almost 100% luck. Once it reaches the amount of luck that this game takes you might as well sit and roll a d20. Everytime you get a 20, count that as 1 completion.
darthrevan4ever
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:55 pm

Re: Initial reactions: balance issues

Postby darthrevan4ever » Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:08 am

I'd say the Binding of Issac is a good example of how this game is you are starting off with bare minimum and have to rely on luck and skill to win you can either be screwed over by the game or win depending on how the game is treating you
Chunes
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:58 am

Re: Initial reactions: balance issues

Postby Chunes » Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:46 am

jambonessy wrote:I have played nethack on and off since 1999, so don't need people lecturing me about what they think a roguelike is supposed to be.


Cool! Since 2003 here.

Nethack has VASTLY more RNG calculations than this game, and even the fastest recorded ascension in that game is still going to be longer than any completion would take you in this game, and yet with all that randomness I believe an experienced player would have a much better chance of a nethack ascension than a completion in this game within a single attempt.


The best NetHack streak by a single player is 23. That's 23 wins in a row. My personal record is 3. I see no reason why a player couldn't achieve the same thing in FTL.

Sometimes you just don't get lucky enough, are deep in the game without a sufficient damge output or despite playing safe are sometimes punished in ways that are not recoverable from over the next 5 turns.


There are guaranteed ways to bypass shields in FTL. If you don't find the weapon you'd prefer, then you can fall back on the crew teleporter and drones. You have to be adaptable.

There is a difference between some runs being easier than others, and a game being almost 100% luck. Once it reaches the amount of luck that this game takes you might as well sit and roll a d20. Everytime you get a 20, count that as 1 completion.


This game is almost entirely non-dependent on luck. Do you really think you've explored all the strategies FTL has to offer? It's only been out for a day. Give it some time. Experiment. You'll be overcoming the RNG in no time.
RynCage
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:25 am

Re: Initial reactions: balance issues

Postby RynCage » Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:43 am

darthrevan4ever wrote:I'd say the Binding of Issac is a good example of how this game is you are starting off with bare minimum and have to rely on luck and skill to win you can either be screwed over by the game or win depending on how the game is treating you

Binding of issac is actually a bad comparison to make.
In binding of issac, the player has the potential to be good enough at the game that you can go through the entire game without picking up a single item, and still win. If you're good enough at, you can pull it off. Items just make the experiance that much easier for you.
in FTL on the otherhand, you're required to have a certain amount of things accomplished by the time you reach the bossfight or you just can't win. You can be the best player in the world, but if you take the starting ship to the end without upgrading anything on it, you cannot win.
So if rougelike had a scale to use, Id say binding of issac is 35% rouge, and 65% like. Whereas FTL is 70% rouge and 30% like.
Personally i like how much more random and luck based FTL is, but i dislike the bossfight's setup entirely.
jambonessy
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:03 pm

Re: Initial reactions: balance issues

Postby jambonessy » Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:16 pm

Chunes wrote:
jambonessy wrote:
The best NetHack streak by a single player is 23. That's 23 wins in a row. My personal record is 3. I see no reason why a player couldn't achieve the same thing in FTL.

This game is almost entirely non-dependent on luck. Do you really think you've explored all the strategies FTL has to offer? It's only been out for a day. Give it some time. Experiment. You'll be overcoming the RNG in no time.



It's at least 29 wins consecutitely, and that's only looking at alt.org

Also, I just got to the end of sector 7 in a run and didn't have an oppurtunity to get any new weapons. As far as I am aware it's realistically impossible to complete with just the missile launcher and burst laser 2, and only having 3 members despite not losing any during the whole playthrough.

Also, sometimes the enemies just hit A LOT. Getting unlucky at the start of a fight can really destroy you, few misses from you on the boss, and the boss hitting everything when your cloak is on CD and it can be as good as over.

In response to the other poster, yes Binding of Isaac is different in that it is completeable with skill. I am nowhere near perfect at it but can easily get past mum's heart everytime (sometimes will die on Isaac/Satan).

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