FTL: Advanced Edition - Ship Unlock Poll

Official posts about the development of the game.
yomer123123
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 10:55 am

Re: FTL: Advanced Edition - Ship Unlock Poll

Postby yomer123123 » Sat Dec 14, 2013 9:18 am

I really like this idea! It's so much better then how it works right now. But I don't want to be able to get a ship from easy mode... It's too easy!

Speaking on difficulty... Will you add a hard opition? I have already beaten the game with all ships on normal mode!
Iranon
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:33 am

Re: FTL: Advanced Edition - Ship Unlock Poll

Postby Iranon » Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:33 am

Sounds inelegant and inappropriate.

Yes, playing to unlock everything can take time and be frustrating if you treat it as a chore... but there is a flip side to this. Coming closer and closer to unlocking the Slug cruiser (where the writing suited the relatively obscure method) without spoilers was great.

Indifference towards player success is a cornerstone to Roguelikes, and FTL borrows enough from them that the same thing applies. Start spoonfeeding in the name of avoiding player frustration, and the concept falls apart - it becomes a game with Roguelike pretensions rather than an updated unintimidating Roguelike.
Euxcine
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:52 pm

Re: FTL: Advanced Edition - Ship Unlock Poll

Postby Euxcine » Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:36 pm

[quote="Iranon"]Sounds inelegant and inappropriate.

Yes, playing to unlock everything can take time and be frustrating if you treat it as a chore... but there is a flip side to this. Coming closer and closer to unlocking the Slug cruiser (where the writing suited the relatively obscure method) without spoilers was great.

Indifference towards player success is a cornerstone to Roguelikes, and FTL borrows enough from them that the same thing applies. Start spoonfeeding in the name of avoiding player frustration, and the concept falls apart - it becomes a game with Roguelike pretensions rather than an updated unintimidating Roguelike.[/quote]
Quoted for truth.

Despite the apparent frustration of certain players, unlocking the ships through obscure quests is what has kept me going this long. I've unlocked every single ship, except the Crystal Cruiser, and I'm still playing to get that last ship. And then when that's done, I'll playing with mods to pass the time until I can get my grubby little hands on the Advanced Edition (which I will keep the same unlock system) ;)
UltraMantis
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Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:17 pm

Re: FTL: Advanced Edition - Ship Unlock Poll

Postby UltraMantis » Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:47 pm

So far all game changing new additions have been optional. The reason for the new unlock system is a response to player feedback. Many players found unlocks too random, and that is certainly true. FTL achievements are mostly random rather than being something to achieve.

But i'm with ya to a point. I prefer the original but have no problem with other players having fun their way.
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YumItsTasty
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:00 pm

Re: FTL: Advanced Edition - Ship Unlock Poll

Postby YumItsTasty » Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:34 pm

This unlock system sounds ok, but I really liked the quest-based unlock system and it was definitely one of the reasons I played FTL as long as I did (+200 hours). As long as the new method is optional I guess there is nothing wrong with it. Maybe just enable it in easy mode for the "casual" gamers?

An alternative route could be to build in a help system that gradually gives the player advice on how to unlock the next ship. For example if a player wants to unlock the mantis cruiser the 1. hint would be "If you fight KazaaakplethKilik, try killing the crew", the 2. hint "upgrade your medbay" and if that doesnt help there could be an option to always have the Mantis Homeworld on the map (maybe even mark it so the player knows where to go). Maybe the hints could even be hidden in random encounters/events involving mantis.

This system would help new players to not get stuck, but still give them the satisfaction of completing quests to unlock the ships.
mqstout
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:48 pm

Re: FTL: Advanced Edition - Ship Unlock Poll

Postby mqstout » Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:25 pm

Hints might go a long way toward helping unlocks without changing the system much. I know I had to look a few things up on wikis to get them all.
snave
Posts: 0
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 4:56 pm

Re: FTL: Advanced Edition - Ship Unlock Poll

Postby snave » Sun Dec 22, 2013 5:12 pm

I can't say I really like the new idea, because I feel it'd take away the sense of achievement from solving one of the unlock puzzles. Whilst I've already unlocked all (bar the secret) myself, I'd have hated to just been given a ship outright as I'd feel like that challenge was stolen from under me, even if the 'quest completed' flag remained bare. Beating the game, even on Normal, is a different kind of difficulty to the ship unlock puzzles and I like that the two are separate.

What I would however love to see would be an unlockable set of toggles to modify the sector generation rules to remove the element of luck for players who have already progressed a fair way in the game. So say, beat the game with Ship X you unlock the option at game start to "Flee via the Zoltan Homeworlds" which simply ensures the Zoltan ship is potentially unlockable in your next playthrough (ie: Zoltan Homeworlds are a guarenteed sector somewhere on the map), should you play well and take the correct paths. This would be particularly handy for unlocking the secret ship as it'd take the luck element out for those that have beaten the game with every other ship, but wouldn't otherwise spoil the quest.
Eji1700
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:26 pm

Re: FTL: Advanced Edition - Ship Unlock Poll

Postby Eji1700 » Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:00 am

I like the idea, a lot, however some thoughts-

1. Current system..kinda sucks. I played through the game on a friends computer, and unlocked most the ships, and then would play on mine and feel the EXTREME tedium. It was actually worse once i knew what i was doing because rather than take routes that might be new or interesting, I decided I needed to memorize what quests happened where and how and do my best to maximize my unlock chances per run because VARIETY IS FUN. A VERY large problem with the game is there's tons of neat stuff to do, theoretically, in practice a LOT of it doesn't work because your run can't support it, or it's not worth the scrap, or it's just not balanced right, etc, etc. Not having access to lots of ships past a point is really really rough, especially the final stretch and dealing with the RNG.

2. While I like this system, it sorta doesn't do anything for vets coming back? For someone like me who will(eventually...stupid crystal) have everything and all variants, the only thing i'm coming back to is any new ship, variant, or weapon. I'll already have all the ships. Even if i don't, I don't think it'd take me long to unlock them all with this method, in fact I'd no doubt unlock a majority of the ships BEFORE solving the class puzzles(as would I think most average players with this setup). It sorta depends on what you do(i would HIGHLY recommend variant final bosses, or maybe even mini bosses, but that's another issue entirely) but really barring ways to change end game content, it's a puzzle, and once it's solved, it's sorta easy to repeat. Once you can repeat it easily(even if it's not the most fun way) beating the game multiple times isn't that hard, especially in comparison in hunting down, finding, and doing the ship quests.

3. Have you considered making the quests less...rngish? I always thought that if each quest had a "marker item" that you could purchase/find for a hunk of scrap that would at least help narrow things down(maybe highlight a sector it could be in or highlight 4 stars it could start at, or anything really...), and give purpose to playthroughs and maybe a bit more hope.

4. Finally...have you ever considered adding other rewards for doing the quests BESIDES ship unlocks. It sucks that once you've unlocked them, they're essentially massive resource sinks that are rarely worth the effort. If each quest could give you some special weapon at the end of it as well, that'd give you a reason to actually consider doing a quest you've already done(or a quest for a ship you unlocked via the other method). I always felt that more..unique content would do well(as opposed to the current very general RNG related content).

Anyways all just food for thought. Your proposed system would do fine if that's what it came down to, and i'd be very sad to see the current system be the only method again as it's very....one shot fun, and I think the game has the space to be more than that.
snowhusky5
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:25 pm

Re: FTL: Advanced Edition - Ship Unlock Poll

Postby snowhusky5 » Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:08 pm

As someone who has played and thoroughly enjoyed some of the original roguelikes, I agree with the people that say that unlocking the ships simply by obtaining victory with another would be a little bit too easy. Giving hints about how to unlock the ships through the quests would probably be better (hints are very common in older roguelikes, revealing new game mechanics and etc). Alternatively, the sequential unlocks could unlock the a layout, and then the quests could unlock the c layout. Or the sequential system could only work in easy difficulty, with ships being unlocked for normal difficulty by completing the quest (in either difficulty). I'm sure there are plenty of options.

Also, the crystal ship seems a bit easy to unlock simply by unlocking all the other ships; the crystals are supposed to be uber-rare, so their ship probably should be too. Some possible alternatives are to:
unlock the crystal ship when all the b (and maybe c) layouts are unlocked for all the other normal ships
give a rather large hint about the sequence of events needed to do the quest, either after unlocking the other ships or as a random beacon event in rock sectors ('you meet an ancient rock wiseman...')
Allow mouseover of a sector in the sector map to show what sector it is, besides just friendly, hostile, and nebula.

By the way, would there be any chance of adding some sort of compatibility to player-made ships, so they dont need to replace one of the existing ones in order to be playable? Just a 'load ship' button and a folder would probably be fine
Beige Dragon
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 6:47 am

Re: FTL: Advanced Edition - Ship Unlock Poll

Postby Beige Dragon » Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:23 pm

I dislike the current unlock method, and would futher dislike the suggested one. For the current one, it basically relies on luck. But for the suggested one, it relies on tediously splatting tons of ships you find hard. Say you're no good with the engi cruiser. Alright, no prob, you unlocked the slug cruiser through an event. But, then there's the ships inbetween them. You try to beat the game with it alot, but you know, its just not your style. You just cant do it. It isnt like the current system, where you may or may not succeed in killing all the crew for the mantis cruiser quest, or you may or may not get the right sectors for the crystal ship. Its just a total chance of never getting a ship without cheating.

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