Rebel Flagship Design

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meklozz
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Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:11 am

Re: Rebel Flagship Design

Postby meklozz » Sun Dec 11, 2016 10:40 pm

I'm not really complaining about its difficulty, I'd have to play a real game if not several for that. Was mostly just wondering if it was intended.

The only thing that I think you should know is that adding that single room made the game play smoothly to the end without even starting a new game. I have not encountered a crash when the flagship jumped away, though I'm still planning to do a whole game and check with your completely unaltered version, maybe tomorrow.

The room amount could just be related to a save file created before the mod, in which case I'd expect a smooth game with no crashes.

Recreating the loadout and all that was just my trying to figure things out, don't worry about it. I think you should try anything Sleeper Service suggested yourself, as well as try adding a room like I did just to see if it helps with anything.
Gidoza
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Re: Rebel Flagship Design

Postby Gidoza » Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:31 am

Okay, so Re: Sleeper Service no I didn't try the auto room thingie in Superluminal - didn't know it existed. :D (I'm a very manual kind of guy) I'll have to try that next weekend when my 14-hour-a-day work-week has ended...

Re: meklozz - Ah yes I see what you mean then about difficulty. Yeah basically I want things to be balanced overall, but I'm not pinning that balance on any particular round of the Flagship but on all three rounds taken together.

Regarding number of rooms: maybe the Flagship NEEDS to have a specific amount of rooms to function properly? I don't know...in any case - after my last post where the game crashed after the Flagship jumped away, I re-loaded again later and then played through to the end without a single problem. Go figure. Haven't had enough time to test more, though.

Anyways, I updated a couple things that are worth testing to see if we can fully get this show on the road while working out the kinks.

First off...

http://www.filedropper.com/customflagships_4

This latest version of "Custom Flagships" is my hopeful attempt to include only the [necessary] graphics and sounds for the Drones and weapon types that the Flagship uses from Custom Flagships so the mod can function totally independently. I also added an event-hopeful that turns off oxygen whenever the Flagship has no crew on board, so let's be watching to see if that works properly.

With these in mind, I hunted through my Flagship Designs file and tried to find the one with the biggest array of different kinds of Drones from CE just to see that the above graphics would be tested fully. By sheer coincidence, the Flagship type that this ended up being was another one with a Backup DNA Bank (they're actually not that common - but I guess I like this as a testing stage because it doesn't give away too many of the cool surprises :D), so this may provide interesting data on how crew carries over from Flagship to Flagship and whether the AI triggers if all crew are dead but in the DNA Bank.

So anyways...here's the Flagship M. Lastly, I included the "Special Flagship" (under construction) within the designs as well.

http://www.filedropper.com/flagm



EDIT: Due to being sick today, took some time to run a test in FTL Vanilla - Flagship M worked perfectly with all its extra drones and stuff. Sadly I used a ship with no scanners - so I have no idea what kind of effectiveness the Clone Bay actually had!!! No crashes.

Another question that arises from this test: The first engagement with the Flagship is offset weirdly to the right compared with the other two engagements - yet I did nothing different in setting the thing up than I did for B. How on earth did it get offset like this and can it be fixed?
Gidoza
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Re: Rebel Flagship Design

Postby Gidoza » Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:55 am

http://www.filedropper.com/flaga

Our typical Flagship is Flag A here - just putting it up to test the offset thingie. If that's solvable - then so far everything seems to be working and I can just amass the rest and upload them all at once in the near future!

EDIT: And as if running tests to see if things work here weren't tedious enough already - I played a game all the way through to sector 8 and then saved and quit to return to it today just before the Flagship fight - only to discover that the "Continue" button was greyed out and seemingly all memory of that last game had vanished into thin air. How does that even happen???
meklozz
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Re: Rebel Flagship Design

Postby meklozz » Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:36 pm

Ok, so I played through flagM today. Sorry for the delay. Noticed a couple of things, not sure if you want screenshots here, so just gonna mentioned them for now:

- I saw the offset problem in phase 1, I suspect it's because of the first room from the left being in a different place and the whole thing moving based on that. Have you tried calculating offset automatically in superluminal? I'll look at it in superluminal, but it's probably best to just see what the vanilla flagship does and parrot it.

- the flagship has so much hull points the graphic ends and starts over, I'm not sure if it can be fixed by making a new graphic (\img\combatUI\box_hostiles_hull2.png), or if it's just too much hull

- there are no weapon graphics on the gibs when it blows up

- enemy missiles throughout the game have the CE graphic, not really a big problem, but I'm not sure why as the flagship shouldn't use the normal weapon graphics (maybe for drones?)

Other than those, everything went ok. Hard to comment on the difficulty, as my ship was very strong, and I had no problem with it. It was very light on crew attacks, I guess that's the design but vanilla flagship is generally designed to test you in ll the ways there are I think. Seemed ok, though, it still got some damage in on my decked out zoltan B. It didn't feel extremely different from a normal flagship fight, I wasn't boarding, and the weapons were generally similar.
I saved the save if you want it for some reason.

@edit
Yeah you can see the leftmost room in superluminal isn't as far to the left as it can. 'Edit' > 'Calculate Optimal Offset' seems to fix things. It does something for the other phases, too, you might want to let it. Yeah, vanilla flagships are all centered, your phase 2 is also a bit too much to the right. In phase 3 superluminal shows an odd graphic, I'm not sure what that's about, the image seemed ok I think.
Gidoza
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Re: Rebel Flagship Design

Postby Gidoza » Fri Dec 16, 2016 2:53 pm

meklozz wrote:Ok, so I played through flagM today. Sorry for the delay. Noticed a couple of things, not sure if you want screenshots here, so just gonna mentioned them for now:

- I saw the offset problem in phase 1, I suspect it's because of the first room from the left being in a different place and the whole thing moving based on that. Have you tried calculating offset automatically in superluminal? I'll look at it in superluminal, but it's probably best to just see what the vanilla flagship does and parrot it.

- the flagship has so much hull points the graphic ends and starts over, I'm not sure if it can be fixed by making a new graphic (\img\combatUI\box_hostiles_hull2.png), or if it's just too much hull

- there are no weapon graphics on the gibs when it blows up

- enemy missiles throughout the game have the CE graphic, not really a big problem, but I'm not sure why as the flagship shouldn't use the normal weapon graphics (maybe for drones?)

Other than those, everything went ok. Hard to comment on the difficulty, as my ship was very strong, and I had no problem with it. It was very light on crew attacks, I guess that's the design but vanilla flagship is generally designed to test you in ll the ways there are I think. Seemed ok, though, it still got some damage in on my decked out zoltan B. It didn't feel extremely different from a normal flagship fight, I wasn't boarding, and the weapons were generally similar.
I saved the save if you want it for some reason.

@edit
Yeah you can see the leftmost room in superluminal isn't as far to the left as it can. 'Edit' > 'Calculate Optimal Offset' seems to fix things. It does something for the other phases, too, you might want to let it. Yeah, vanilla flagships are all centered, your phase 2 is also a bit too much to the right. In phase 3 superluminal shows an odd graphic, I'm not sure what that's about, the image seemed ok I think.


Ah, really useful!

Re: Superluminal offset - will try "calculate optimal offset" and see what happens, but this is probably the problem as I figured the default offset from Superluminal would be the proper one.

Re: Hull points - I guess we could make a new graphic if it doesn't look nice; it's only "too much hull" to me if it makes the game break - otherwise, if it works, I'm just using it for balance

Re: Weapon gibs blowing up - hm, this is probably because I didn't copy some of the img files over, but I'm not sure which ones I need, so yeah, my bad on that one...

Re: Missile weapons - it's the Flagship: why not have special-looking missiles for it? :P


And thanks for the feedback on strength. If it seemed similar to a regular Flagship fight, then that sounds good to me - that's what I'm aiming for! :)
meklozz
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Re: Rebel Flagship Design

Postby meklozz » Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:43 pm

Gibs need to include the weapons in their image as far as I can tell, they won't show up any other way. It's no big deal, probably not worth the work.

About the missiles, I mean normal leto and artemises on normal ships have changed graphics, I believe it's the missiles_1_strip3.png file. Also no big deal, just CE stuff going over. Could be fixed with changing the blueprints you use a little (some missile drones for some of the flagships, I'm guessing), but probably not worth it, either.

About hull points, unfortunately it seems like the graphics has to be 22 hull long and it changes what is shown based on the percentage of it, e.g. if you made it 33 bars long, it would just show all of them for a ship with 22 hull and drain a bar and a half per damage. In short, the UI can't be fixed that simply. I guess you can either leave the UI issue be, or maybe try to at least make it look a little better, maybe just making the heights a little closer so it's not as jarring.
I think just editing it not to have the.. slowly raising edge at the first bar would be better. I don't know graphics, but now you have something like:

Code: Select all

      ___
  __/    |  _
/        |/

And a better effect might be something like:

Code: Select all

    __
 __|  |__
|
Gidoza
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Re: Rebel Flagship Design

Postby Gidoza » Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:39 pm

Okay, so...

Gibs - Looks like I didn't miss anything; the RandomFlagships files just don't appear to have those as part of the Gibs deal (As far as I can tell?). If there's a way to include them easily, then I don't know it at the moment; otherwise, this would be someone else's volunteer project.

Missiles - Ah, I see what you mean. That probably should be easy to fix as it only involves one file and a couple graphics sheets. I'll deal with that last on the list, though, because for now I just want to get all of the Flagships done done done!!! Please remind me if I forget!

Hull Points - I'm not a graphics person, so maybe this could be another small volunteer project. Any idea what the maximum possible hit points for a ship actually is? In any case, I DO see what you mean that it can look somewhat sharp and not ideally aesthetically-pleasing - so if there's a corrective that could be done, I'd be open to it.


Anyways, just finished Flagship I and made an "adjustment" to the Flagship C to see if the offsets work - if that does it, then it'll be easy to fix all the offsets on the Flagships I've made in but a few minutes. Here goes!
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RAD-82
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Re: Rebel Flagship Design

Postby RAD-82 » Sat Dec 17, 2016 12:17 am

Gidoza wrote:Gibs - Looks like I didn't miss anything; the RandomFlagships files just don't appear to have those as part of the Gibs deal (As far as I can tell?). If there's a way to include them easily, then I don't know it at the moment; otherwise, this would be someone else's volunteer project.

This has nothing to do with the gib coding. This is part of the weapon mount coding.

In the boss_1.xml file for Phase 1 of the Flagship

Code: Select all

<weaponMounts>
   <mount x="150" y="50" rotate="false" mirror="false" gib="1" slide="up"/>
   <mount x="264" y="50" rotate="false" mirror="false" gib="2" slide="up"/>
   <mount x="89" y="65" rotate="false" mirror="false" gib="1" slide="up"/>
   <mount x="324" y="65" rotate="false" mirror="false" gib="2" slide="up"/>
   <mount x="176" y="52" rotate="false" mirror="false" gib="1" slide="no"/>
   <mount x="357" y="52" rotate="false" mirror="false" gib="2" slide="no"/>
   <mount x="444" y="98" rotate="false" mirror="false" gib="1" slide="no"/>
   <mount x="89" y="98" rotate="false" mirror="false" gib="2" slide="no"/>
</weaponMounts>

I have no idea what you do in Superluminal for this, but I would assume there is some weapon mount properties where this gib value would be assigned.

edit: Seems I lack knowledge in this, as pointed out by meklozz below. Sorry for wasting time.
Last edited by RAD-82 on Sat Dec 17, 2016 3:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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meklozz
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Re: Rebel Flagship Design

Postby meklozz » Sat Dec 17, 2016 12:40 am

RAD-82 wrote:
Gidoza wrote:Gibs - Looks like I didn't miss anything; the RandomFlagships files just don't appear to have those as part of the Gibs deal (As far as I can tell?). If there's a way to include them easily, then I don't know it at the moment; otherwise, this would be someone else's volunteer project.

This has nothing to do with the gib coding. This is part of the weapon mount coding.

In the boss_1.xml file for Phase 1 of the Flagship

Code: Select all

<weaponMounts>
   <mount x="150" y="50" rotate="false" mirror="false" gib="1" slide="up"/>
   <mount x="264" y="50" rotate="false" mirror="false" gib="2" slide="up"/>
   <mount x="89" y="65" rotate="false" mirror="false" gib="1" slide="up"/>
   <mount x="324" y="65" rotate="false" mirror="false" gib="2" slide="up"/>
   <mount x="176" y="52" rotate="false" mirror="false" gib="1" slide="no"/>
   <mount x="357" y="52" rotate="false" mirror="false" gib="2" slide="no"/>
   <mount x="444" y="98" rotate="false" mirror="false" gib="1" slide="no"/>
   <mount x="89" y="98" rotate="false" mirror="false" gib="2" slide="no"/>
</weaponMounts>

I have no idea what you do in Superluminal for this, but I would assume there is some weapon mount properties where this gib value would be assigned.

That's all there, I don't think it works for artillery weapons. The vanilla flagship has the weapon graphics as part of the actual gib image.
Gidoza
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Re: Rebel Flagship Design

Postby Gidoza » Sat Dec 17, 2016 5:13 pm

Thanks for trying, RAD-82. :D The effort is appreciated, to say the least!


Anyways, regarding offsets - I tried "optimal offset" with SuperLuminal - it doesn't exactly work. While it might offset one of the Flagship lines correctly, it'll fail miserably for another one. Particularly stage 2 - and I think this is because the Flagship is ultimately non-centred in this case (1 and 3 seem generally OK). However, changing offset values directly in the file did no harm, so what I think I'll do is look up the offsets from FTL's files directly and just change them from that and hope it works.


Now here's an interesting question for Meklozz.

I was testing a Flagship that I had set up to have some Ion Intruder Drones. Except, when the Drones fired - they turned out to be Boarding Drones instead. I double-checked the data, and indeed I had set everything up correctly and it SHOULD be an Ion Intruder Drone, but it isn't. What's going on? The only thing that comes to mind is that Ion Intruders might work like Vanilla Augmentations - where they can never be renamed for any reason or they don't work properly. What do you think?

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