[MOD][NEW RELEASE] Sonata 7a TC

Distribute and discuss mods that are functional. Moderator - Grognak
thashepherd
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Re: [MOD] Sonata Total Conversion

Postby thashepherd » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:41 pm

shark wrote:
BrenTenkage wrote:Looking at mod makers help each other, makes me think you al lshould work together to make a super mod. Combinding the best mods together into an ultimate one

hahahaha, shark mods almost got banned for that.

j/k. the thing is there's not much point in making a "super mod" as we've already pushed the envelope on the possibilities of what can be changed. now the only thing left for us to do is grind quality work; and that comes down to visual/artistic assets (alot of days) and some walls of text (few hours tops).

so if you have ships you need coded or unused assets you want to put to use - drop me a PM.


Shark mods almost got banned for doing that without permission lol. Sometimes it takes a lot more work to re-use stuff legally than it does to just do it over yourself. One reason that a "super-mod" would be difficult to pull off is that devs have egos - everyone has their own particular idea for how they want their mod to look, and they don't jive well together.

Shark is right - as far as what can be changed, nothing is really all that *difficult*. It just takes scut work.

Where Sonata stands now (internal dev version), I COULD actually use help testing and developing art assets. Within those limited roles I would welcome collaboration.
You are the weak, and I am the tyranny of evil men - but I'm trying, I'm trying real hard to be the shepherd.

"Wow, that Kieve guy is one angsty nerd eh."
Sonata - "Best use of Common Lisp in an indie space roguelike!"
thashepherd
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Re: [MOD] Sonata Total Conversion

Postby thashepherd » Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:05 pm

With BrenTenkage's able help as a tester, I'm putting the final touches on Sonata 7 right now.
(By the way - thanks to everyone who played Sonata 5! ~330 downloads so far; it makes this so rewarding!)

Here's a playthrough video (just the game, no commentary) of the dev version, which is feature-complete at this point. I'm using the 'Kilimanjaro', a pirate version of the Sower terraformer:
Video | Mirror

Here's another video, this time of yours truly getting his ass kicked in the Kilimanjaro's sister ship:
Video

Brief list of new features since the current release:
- New UI
- New weapon sounds
- New soundtrack
- New backgrounds
- New weapon/projectile graphics
- New storyline
- New events
- New ships
- New enemies
- Millions of small things (crew expositions, crew combat sound effects, bug fixes, boss sequence, credits)

I have 2 more sets of gibs to make (plus 1 secret feature), plus results from testing. I want to get this release out soon - schoolwork is piling up!
You are the weak, and I am the tyranny of evil men - but I'm trying, I'm trying real hard to be the shepherd.

"Wow, that Kieve guy is one angsty nerd eh."
Sonata - "Best use of Common Lisp in an indie space roguelike!"
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BrenTenkage
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Re: [MOD] Sonata Total Conversion

Postby BrenTenkage » Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:13 pm

Video is nearly done, I'll send it to you, and I do have some issues (mostly near the end) which might be fixxed up. Some humor, and of course, an ending thats a bit dramatic
I make a lot of lets plays of FTL, I also use mods I find on this site http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL ... 06hca_PXuX
I am also a modder as well, here is my mod hub viewtopic.php?f=11&t=32269
thashepherd
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Re: [MOD] Sonata Total Conversion

Postby thashepherd » Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:46 pm

Thanks, BT - can't wait to see your feedback.

Some pictures (added to new ModDB page & OP):

Image
link
Image
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Image
link
Image
link
You are the weak, and I am the tyranny of evil men - but I'm trying, I'm trying real hard to be the shepherd.

"Wow, that Kieve guy is one angsty nerd eh."
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Kieve
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Re: [MOD] Sonata Total Conversion

Postby Kieve » Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:36 pm

I run a little hot & cold on this project...
On the one hand, I really like the amount of effort and dedication being put in. I never played the source material, so a "mod-based-on-a-mod-of-another-game-I-haven't-played" probably doesn't spark the same interest as people who know the background, but I can still appreciate the custom work going into it all. Some of the ideas - weapons in particular, I like very much.

Then there's the ships themselves... thashepherd, this isn't a knock on your art skills, since it has little to do with the presentation of these ships, but I find their overall design to be... well, ugly. I looked up the Endless Space wiki to locate the source material and the Empire definitely got the short end of the shaft there. Amoeba, Hissho, and Sophon ships are way more interesting and appealing, visually. Personal taste obviously (my favorites are the Sophon ships it would seem), but with the current ships I'm having a hard time looking at these vessels and going "Yup, I want to captain that!" Will we be seeing some of the other races' ships soon, I hope?
thashepherd
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Re: [MOD] Sonata Total Conversion

Postby thashepherd » Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:45 pm

Kieve wrote:I run a little hot & cold on this project...
On the one hand, I really like the amount of effort and dedication being put in. I never played the source material, so a "mod-based-on-a-mod-of-another-game-I-haven't-played" probably doesn't spark the same interest as people who know the background, but I can still appreciate the custom work going into it all. Some of the ideas - weapons in particular, I like very much.

Then there's the ships themselves... thashepherd, this isn't a knock on your art skills, since it has little to do with the presentation of these ships, but I find their overall design to be... well, ugly. I looked up the Endless Space wiki to locate the source material and the Empire definitely got the short end of the shaft there. Amoeba, Hissho, and Sophon ships are way more interesting and appealing, visually. Personal taste obviously (my favorites are the Sophon ships it would seem), but with the current ships I'm having a hard time looking at these vessels and going "Yup, I want to captain that!" Will we be seeing some of the other races' ships soon, I hope?


Thanks for the feedback, man! There is literally nothing I look forward to as much as feedback from you and the other developers on here. Exactly what I like to hear. Glad you liked the weapons! They're my favorite part. Agreed that the mod-of-a-mod-of-another-game aspect detracts from its appeal; it's part of why I hurried to add gfx/sfx/bgm for this release.

That's actually the reverse of what I expected - I am a frankly horrible artist, so developing the ships takes a lot of time from me and it's not that much *fun*. So I expected that the presentation would be pretty poor. (The UE frigate/destroyer are almost straight from the concept art, but I had to create the enemies myself)

I do love the Sophon ships, and they're coming next (followed by Hissho, replacing Mantis), but I can see them being really difficult for me. I'd always thought the Empire ships were attractive in a utilitarian way - ships designed for war, for function, not for aesthetics. They're absolutely my favorite in that sense. Comparing the Empire, Sower, and Sophon ships is like comparing a Tiger tank and a 1993 vintage IBM computer case to a Lamborghini Miura.
You are the weak, and I am the tyranny of evil men - but I'm trying, I'm trying real hard to be the shepherd.

"Wow, that Kieve guy is one angsty nerd eh."
Sonata - "Best use of Common Lisp in an indie space roguelike!"
shark
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Re: [MOD] Sonata Total Conversion

Postby shark » Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:56 pm

thashepherd wrote: Comparing the Empire, Sower, and Sophon ships is like comparing a Tiger tank and a 1993 vintage IBM computer case to a Lamborghini Miura.

I don't think you should bother making the other two races then :D they don't stand a chance against the mighty 88mm.

as far as devs having egos... there's one point in "i want my mod to look exactly like this" and there's merit in designing a gameplay; but there's also developer's joy in writing a library, or in this case a simple module that can be plug-and-played over any other mod.

it's either that or you change everything yourself to ensure no other mods can easily run atop it.
but it's really sad to see egos getting caught up in a pure idea, but it is what it is. though there is worse, sometimes communities split between devs (usually after they fall apart) and well, sometimes dev A makes much more progress than dev B. dev A tries to make peace with dev B, his royal followers shun and literally cuss off dev A, burning that bridge instead of them.

You see alot of strange, childish, weird things online in 12 years of random modding. But that's what some bright scriptkiddies and coders are - able to keep stack traces, memory regions and thread locks in their head but can barely keep up with personal hygene. we're weird people and it's a shame some of us can't work along with anybody.
not that there aren't cool people among coders, it's just that most of them fill a certain "the office" stereotype, unfortunately.
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thashepherd
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Re: [MOD] Sonata Total Conversion

Postby thashepherd » Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:16 pm

shark wrote:
thashepherd wrote: Comparing the Empire, Sower, and Sophon ships is like comparing a Tiger tank and a 1993 vintage IBM computer case to a Lamborghini Miura.

I don't think you should bother making the other two races then :D they don't stand a chance against the mighty 88mm.

as far as devs having egos... there's one point in "i want my mod to look exactly like this" and there's merit in designing a gameplay; but there's also developer's joy in writing a library, or in this case a simple module that can be plug-and-played over any other mod.

it's either that or you change everything yourself to ensure no other mods can easily run atop it.
but it's really sad to see egos getting caught up in a pure idea, but it is what it is. though there is worse, sometimes communities split between devs (usually after they fall apart) and well, sometimes dev A makes much more progress than dev B. dev A tries to make peace with dev B, his royal followers shun and literally cuss off dev A, burning that bridge instead of them.

You see alot of strange, childish, weird things online in 12 years of random modding. But that's what some bright scriptkiddies and coders are - able to keep stack traces, memory regions and thread locks in their head but can barely keep up with personal hygene. we're weird people and it's a shame some of us can't work along with anybody.
not that there aren't cool people among coders, it's just that most of them fill a certain "the office" stereotype, unfortunately.


I probably get more of the "developer's joy" that you're talking about. But there's a certain joy in any kind of creation - I'm happy to have the sort of skill set where I CAN create and put something out there. Really the most rewarding part is hearing one guy say "I liked this", or watching the download counter tick over onto a new digit.

I've seen some ego horror stories - on an old mod project of mine, I was working with a dev from Finland and we had the worst kind of conflict; it eventually tore the team apart, and we had that "A vs. B" situation. The stereotypes are out there for a reason.

That's why sometimes it's easier to go solo (although I'd like to think that I'm a relatively easy guy to work with). It's part of software engineering - you have to have the Comp Sci skills, but then also be able to run and work within a project team. Fascinating stuff. I'd actually love it if additional people wanted to work on Sonata, but (as Kieve said) it's hard to leap into the lore - not that it isn't flexible.

Shark, have you pulled down the dev version? I'm curious to see what you think.
You are the weak, and I am the tyranny of evil men - but I'm trying, I'm trying real hard to be the shepherd.

"Wow, that Kieve guy is one angsty nerd eh."
Sonata - "Best use of Common Lisp in an indie space roguelike!"
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BrenTenkage
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Re: [MOD] Sonata Total Conversion

Postby BrenTenkage » Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:17 pm

Well Lore wise, you got me interested into the lore
I make a lot of lets plays of FTL, I also use mods I find on this site http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL ... 06hca_PXuX
I am also a modder as well, here is my mod hub viewtopic.php?f=11&t=32269
A9x
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Re: [MOD] Sonata Total Conversion

Postby A9x » Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:26 pm

BrenTenkage wrote:Well Lore wise, you got me interested into the lore


The Lore of Endless Space and Minuet is one that I like to say is well made. It has so much conflict as much as it does hopefulness and flexibility. There has been a lot planned in Minuet that hasn't been done in Sonata.

One would be the inclusion of the 4 way battle between The Pilgrims, the UE, and the two custom factions:

The Interstellar Holdings Trading Group - A splinter faction consisting of traders, businessmen and diplomats on the pursuit of interstellar power and wealth.

The Unity - A transhumanist matriarch cult that is determined to spread their words across the galaxy while killing all of those who resist.


Now The Unity and IHTG are not at all implemented yet to either mod and whether or not they will be is still discussed. Fingers crossed! :D

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