FTL Captain's Edition 1.308/Inf 1.301b/EL 1.308

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stylesrj
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.275/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby stylesrj » Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:28 am

Estel wrote:It means that you're playing FTL and got worst possible outcome of the non-blue choice, courtesy of RNG. "It's FTL, baby!" - sometimes you find "holy crap weapon is floating in space!", and sometimes, *you* become that weapon floating in space, after rebel cadets trash whole ship, kill all your crew, then die due to lack of oxygen :lol:


Which means no quarter. Prisoners must die. Just like I avoid Zoltan sectors. It's either 6 boarders with explosive deaths and a problem with my weapons licensing or a space station with high shields, Mind Control and Hacking. And a problem with my weapons licensing.
Gunning the prisoners down doesn't have consequences when it most certainly should, on the same level as piracy and all that.

This is good idea (we have torturing, dismembering, enslaving , bombing settlements, buying slaves - why not some selling? ;) ), except that I would allow to *either* force on of them as slave (in-lore, rest opposed and got executed by Mantis, only this one was terrified enough to agree) *or* organize selling the slaves. Otherwise, you could, sometimes, get 2 crew members as a result of that single event (one joining your party as slave, other from possible fight with slavers). Balance reasons.


This could be tweaked. Maybe you don't get a free slave and you can sell them at a quest beacon. Then the slavers say "Hand over your prisoners and you'll be rewarded."

Refuse and they'll say "We came all the way out here for a deal only for you to refuse? DIE!" or they leave without another word, angry at their time being wasted.

Of course this can be further twisted - you hand over the prisoners only to not get paid. Attack them if you want. Or you hand them over, the slavers decide you're also valuable and attack. Or they pay you only half of what you're owed because they don't like the slave quality.

You can threaten to get the other half or attack and get the other half and one of their slaves as payment.

Speaking of which, can a Rebel prisoner exchange for money/fleet delay net you more crew? I'd like to swap a bunch of Rebel POWs over and get say an Engi or a Zoltan in return (or another filthy Human officer).

Hey, haven't you watched all those prison escapes in S-F movies (star wars and the rest)? Or played the RPGs or action games, where you get gun (or, pack with your whole equipment) just next to your cell? Somehow, they always manage to get weapon ;)


Yeah but that's because I'm the hero and it's a story about my characters.
Then again, in sci-fi and stuff, the villains always escape somehow and it's mentioned offhandedly that they "escaped offscreen and are gunning for you."

Seriously though, it's not portraying you as the incompetent - it's rather the fact that rebels turned out to be very smart and crafty (managed to break free, overhelmed closest guard, used obtained equipment to break into armory through vents or maintenance deck... Use imagination!). After all, having to fight armed boarders is the sense of this outcome, don't be too picky.


The Rebel Cadets must have just graduated from the Macguyver Academy. Yeah that explains it. They used a paperclip and some duct tape to disable the forcefield walls (because all sci-fi prisons must not use regular bars) or to hack the easily accessible control console and grab the guns.

2. During the stealth-c unlock quest initial part, we get to check 2 rebel bases. After defeating the "fake" one, we can choose between letting them go, and finishing them. Sadly, after defeating the "correct" fighter, the only possible option is to let the rebel scums go :( (for absolutely free) Could use giving equivalent choice.


I think I mentioned this earlier and I agree. I have Slug Gel, a pair of sunglasses and a problem with the Rebels. I'm no Elsa buddy, I will not let them go! I'm going to see them die! :lol:
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.275/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby Sleeper Service » Mon Jun 01, 2015 11:18 am

Well, I can agree that the whole "Prisoners grab a rifle from a nearby rack as they are brought on board"-scenario portraits the player as somewhat incompetent, or rather the crew of the player ship I guess... But beyond that it sounds like stylesrj really got the bad end of the rng stick there. Taking Rebels prisoner has a 25% fail chance. After that the quest event outcomes all have some degree of positive bonus to them. The Rebels negotiators trying to free the prisoners is the worst outcome, but it still includes a guaranteed level="HIGH" reward if you win the battle, even when destroy the ship. Other outcomes involve getting a level="HIGH" amount of scrap in exchange, getting a crew member, or getting fleet delay, all of which have a 25% to happen each. I agree that getting crew other then a human would be nice though. I'll also consider increasing the fleet delay reward a further, cause you need a jump to get it... But overall executing the prisoners gives you nothing and fixing the exchange gives you a good chance on various rewards.

On the matter of adding a crew moral check in this situation: I aimed to display a gray area here. The cadets are technically "enemy combatants" or whatever you wanna call them, they are in similar position as enemies that have surrendered in combat, and are then killed regardless. Attacking non-Rebel civilians is perceived differently by your crew. They are opposed to executing prisoners, but they ultimately won't oppose this, because Rebels are the enemy. And civilians are the ones "you are fighting for." I absolutely agree that this distinction makes little sense from an ethical standpoint. Which is my point. And I can also agree that I don't get the point across very well, it might just look like inconsistency in the end. I'm very sorry, I wrote this entire event after watching a Gods Will Be Watching lets play and had to get this out of my system.
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.275/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby stylesrj » Mon Jun 01, 2015 11:31 am

Sleeper Service wrote:On the matter of adding a crew moral check in this situation: I aimed to display a gray area here. The cadets are technically "enemy combatants" or whatever you wanna call them, they are in similar position as enemies that have surrendered in combat, and are then killed regardless.


But then you could be flying a Mantis ship who doesn't care about killing prisoners. Having to do it yourself makes me feel like I'm the monster and I should be punished appropriately for violating the Space Geneva Convention or something.

After all, I get punished for breaking truces without the proper augment or for taking slaves.

Attacking non-Rebel civilians is perceived differently by your crew. They are opposed to executing prisoners, but they ultimately won't oppose this, because Rebels are the enemy.


Unless one of the crew is secretly a Rebel agent :lol:
There you go, you try to execute the prisoners and one of your crew reveals their true colours!
Unless you have a Slug who knows all about their allegiance...

* * *

By the way, could enslavement of the cadets or selling them off to a slave trader be an option for Mantis ships? Heck, that could be an entirely new way to play the game, without using augments. The slave trade! Take prisoners and sell them for a profit!

You could even get an augment that allows the trading of slaves, but not other acts of piracy, so it's not just a Mantis thing.
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.275/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby Estel » Mon Jun 01, 2015 6:20 pm

stylesrj wrote:You could even get an augment that allows the trading of slaves, but not other acts of piracy, so it's not just a Mantis thing.


0_o da what? What would be in-lore rationale behind this, a Forced Worker Millenium Act? C'mon, slavery should retain Mantis thing (even Requisition License acts differently than outright pirating). Otherwise, next look around, and we will become a galactic pimp, organizing orgies around visited systems on board of "love cruiser", en-route for saving the Federation. And shooting non-paying clients from flak gun.

/Estel

Ps.

And I agree that from crew's point of view killing surrendering cadets isn't much different than killing crew of the ship that surrender during battle... Except that now they see their faces in real life, so they want you to do it yourself. But shouldn't result in mutiny or whatsnot.
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.275/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby stylesrj » Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:10 pm

0_o da what? What would be in-lore rationale behind this, a Forced Worker Millenium Act? C'mon, slavery should retain Mantis thing (even Requisition License acts differently than outright pirating). Otherwise, next look around, and we will become a galactic pimp, organizing orgies around visited systems on board of "love cruiser", en-route for saving the Federation. And shooting non-paying clients from flak gun.


Sorry, not slavery in that you're taking on slaves, think of it as indentured servitude. They'll be working for the ship for free until they are released from their bondage... if they survive. Dismissing your crew means you're just breaking contract and such details can be argued after you destroy the Flagship.
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.275/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby Estel » Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:33 am

A small bug report (all of therm minor) and pair of suggestions:

Bugs:

1. During-battle event with bad fuel composition causing inefficiency in reactor doesn't reset after battle (I think that *all* of the during-battle negative minus-to-system doesn't reset?):
http://s27.postimg.org/9uklon7pt/battle_event_reactor_reset_amount.png

2. Zoltan's wise man effect of hindering systems doesn't reset after fight (in-lore it should, as effect stop with his death):
http://s27.postimg.org/camf2hpsh/reset_zoltan_wise_man.png

3. Another poor dude in pirate ship ended in sealed-for-life position:
http://s27.postimg.org/564ltgij5/sealed.png

Suggestions:

1. There is a very low chance to actually meet manned rebel ship in acid clouds (most of the times, we find auto-scouts there), and quite interesting lore-text afterwards:
http://s8.postimg.org/celkd34er/acid_rebels.png

Actually, activating this beacon is nice idea! Considering that it's risky zone and finding manned ship there is of very low probability, maybe we could do it, for a 1-jump delay of rebel fleet (due to acid damage)? To be honest, while reading it for the first time, I thought about using it as a bait instantly, not about letting them find their dead :oops: Well, we could be merciful and sneaky at the same time, I suppose...

It could either cost *another* hull point (unless rock, as always), or, instead, require some blue option augment (one of less used - 2 or 3 sensors?). Of course, if requiring blue event, it shouldn't cost hull.

2. In the same situations a bug 1 - maybe this "leakage" should be a set amount (1 of 2), instead of percentage? Suddenly losing 3 power seems a little harsh for in-fight "event".

/Estel
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.275/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby stylesrj » Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:44 am

Estel wrote:
2. In the same situations a bug 1 - maybe this "leakage" should be a set amount (1 of 2), instead of percentage? Suddenly losing 3 power seems a little harsh for in-fight "event".

/Estel


This was because you could run a 3-power augment like the Ion Field and if this event occurred, you actually gain a power bar or two.
Of course if your battery gets hacked, the events are negated as well. But who uses that system?
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.275/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby Estel » Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:32 pm

stylesrj wrote:Of course if your battery gets hacked, the events are negated as well. But who uses that system?


Me, all the time. That's why I was able to win few times on CE hard (in fact, all the wins I had battery) - nothing beats putting 4 temporary power bars into things that require single-use, then get locked for same/longer than the battery, anyway. It doesn't hurt while your battery goes off-line and you "lose" power in locked teleporter/hacking/mind control, while having "real" reactor power sitting there, uselessly, is a loss.

Not to mention that in early sectors (1-3) on hard, depending on battery lvl1 is a gamble that helps saving precious few-jumps worth of scrap, that you can put into shields, or engines (+get better speed during hyperspace), or weapons, or... Albeit, if it is so unpopular, battery could use some more blue events related to it. Like high-lvl piloting.

/Estel
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.275/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby stylesrj » Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:13 pm

I'm just very absent-minded when it comes to power usage in FTL. I tend to forget that the battery exists and it totally could have powered several vital systems during a plasma storm or something.

Just like I don't carefully play the game down to the power point (lose a layer of shields? I don't divert power to the engines for that tiny chance of hopefully dodging the next strike... and I absolutely want to keep Life Support powered up).

------------

By the way Sleeper, I encountered the Bounty Hunter event without taking any precautions. While I didn't lose a crew this time, I had my oxygen disabled. Not destroyed but disabled. Can't we just settle with the bounty hunter blows it up so I can go fix it?
You really do want people to run away from it if they don't make proper preparations like Level 2 Oxygen, Level 3 Sensors, a Slug or really good doors... you know stuff I should have already bought.

I know it sounds silly but I don't like running from battles and running from one where I don't have Life Support after my previous jump left me low on oxygen is the worst. :lol:
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.275/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby Estel » Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:06 pm

stylesrj wrote:While I didn't lose a crew this time, I had my oxygen disabled. Not destroyed but disabled. Can't we just settle with the bounty hunter blows it up so I can go fix it?
You really do want people to run away from it if they don't make proper preparations like Level 2 Oxygen, Level 3 Sensors, a Slug or really good doors... you know stuff I should have already bought.

I know it sounds silly but I don't like running from battles and running from one where I don't have Life Support after my previous jump left me low on oxygen is the worst. :lol:


C'mon, having the system disabled for few seconds instead of for-whole-fight (cause having to repair it is literally this - disable for a short while) would take any tension out from that encounter. Isn't the fact that ship *doesn't* shoot it weapons for 3/4 of (or, most of the times, whole) fight enough?

Also, to be honest, I would *hate* to see CE tailored for the player ego (like "I don't like to run"). As for this BH event (and many, many others), it's either like you're prepared enough to take him out before you even consider oxygen lvl a problem, or you should run like a whole hell is chasing you. So yes, I *want* people to run away, if they're ill-prepared. (not that bounty hunter really require running if you don't have blue option - it's easily manageable).

BTW - BH was nerfed (hard). I still remember his first version, and it was my favorite one - this event is so rare, that it deserve being fight appropriate to its buildup (and very, very good reward afterward). Personally, I wouldn't have anything against making it much more vicious, but give even better reward if you manage.

/Estel

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